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Things Musicians Don't Talk About

Hattie Butterworth & Rebecca Toal

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Hattie Butterworth and Rebecca Toal host a podcast of insight and change in the classical music and arts professions. Delving into the often stigmatised worlds of mental health, injury, discrimination and productivity, classical music issues are spoken and revived. Join Hattie, Rebecca and guests for important conversations, inspiring moments of wisdom and poignant vulnerability. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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In this episode of Things Musicians Don't Talk About, Becca sits down with Chloé van Soeterstède in her dressing room at the Royal College of Music. Chloé shares her personal experiences of working as a musician alongside pregnancy and then motherhood. She walks us through her journey - from figuring out with her manager when might be the best time…
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Another chatty episode for you lovely lot! This was recorded for our last Voices radio slot in February 2023. Hattie and Becca chat about queerness in classical music, exploring our opinions on the films Tár and Maestro, and how we feel power dynamics and hero-worship were portrayed in them. As we've seen over the past few decade or so, teacher-stu…
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This week we come to you (unintentionally) from the Royal Opera House! We speak with composer, theatre-maker, and journalist Zygmund de Somogyi about growing up with Autism Spectrum Disorder, not fitting in to the classical music world, discovering the world of composing, their experiences of imposter syndrome and feeling disconnected from the worl…
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TW: sexual assault we do discuss an experience of sexual assault/harassment about halfway through the episode so feel free to skip through / give this one a miss <3 We recorded this episode as part of our Voices Radio residency after the hazy summer of 2023. We took a break from the podcast for a couple of months and reflect on our individual exper…
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A very Happy New Year from us at TMDTA! To kick off 2024, we have an episode recorded waaaaay back last year with the joyous James Partridge. We speak to him about his very unique career, bringing 'primary school bangers' to the masses and what life is like as a social media sensation. Why do these primary school hymns unlock 100% FEELS in us and w…
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On our Voices Radio slot this month, Becca interviewed DJ Jess Hands about her experiences with mental illness and how making music has been a healing distraction from her struggles. We hear her honest account of what it's like to go through mental health crises, bipolar disorder and to get to grips with simultaneously working as a DJ. Jessica's bi…
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Welcome back! This week we speak with astounding trumpet soloist, Simon Höfele, taking a peek behind the scenes of his stunning international career to discuss the reality of it all. We chat about Simon's fortunate journey to becoming a soloist and how his ultimate love is for creating music (especially the contemporary kind), using the trumpet as …
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Composer Gavin Higgins found that music was the only thing calmed his severe facial tics as a young kid. After an assessment at the Maudsley Hospital, Gavin was diagnosed with Tourettes and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. He was put on Prozac and told to snap a rubber band on his wrist to take away his intrusive thoughts. A lot has changed in the tr…
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It's our first sneaky peaky Patreon preview! Welcome through this little creaky door in the paywall to hear 5 minutes of exclusive content that we recorded last Halloween! In this episode, Hattie, Katy and Becca scare the living daylights outta themselves by reading feedback ranging from grade 8 to graduate scheme rejections. We also have a little …
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This episode is dedicated to Koshka’s wonderful piano teacher, Niel Immelman, who sadly passed away since it was recorded - and who made it all possible. TW// sexual violence and assault, physical assault, police brutality Becca first came across today's guest when she stumbled upon her collection of essays, Abolishing the Police. Philosophy profes…
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For TMDTA's July Voices Radio appearance, Hattie and Becca discuss Lewis Capaldi's Glastonbury set and how this might translate in the classical music world. They also chat about their experiences of saying no as employees and as freelancers, Hattie's new adventures on bass guitar and Becca's new therapist. In the original show, the first half of P…
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Our amazing friend, trumpeter Aaron Akugbo, is about to make his BBC Proms debut with the Chineke! Orchestra - but there's more to his story. Determined to be unapologetic about his identity, Aaron takes us through the weird world of brass 'lad' culture, through to the rise of Black Lives Matter and navigating the brass world as someone facing dire…
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Becca catches up with her former teacher, Paul Denegri, from his stay in an old farmhouse. The humblest of the humble, Paul takes us through his journey to where he is now: revisiting his unexpected appointment as Head of Brass at Wells Cathedral School; his feelings of imposter syndrome and disillusionment with the freelance musician lifestyle; an…
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Things Musicians Don't Talk About is now generously supported by the Royal Society of Musicians! The Royal Society of Musicians is Britain’s oldest music charity and our aims remain as relevant today as they were in the earliest years – to provide vital financial assistance, advice and guidance to those professionally active in the world of music b…
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Tw: Mentions of suicide and it’s prevention In a society opening up conversations around mental health, suicide is still severely stigmatised and misunderstood. Today we meet pianist Gosia Garska who volunteers at the Listening Place - a charity set up to hold space for people struggling with suicidal thoughts and ideation. We discuss common myths …
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WE PASSED OUR VOICES RADIO TRIAL! Here's our most recent episode-show where we answer beautiful questions from our Insta followers (thanks you guys!). We chit-chat about our favourite and least favourite memories of TMDTA, Father Christmas and Wendy Christmas, a slightly different origin story of the podcast, the power of sharing our stories on soc…
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This week we speak with the inspiring Emily Ashton, baroque cellist, viola da gambist and climate activist. Emily is a founding member of XR Baroque, a group of early music environmentalists who perform at Extinction Rebellion protests. We discuss how we process the overwhelm and anxiety that come with thinking about climate change, the murkiness o…
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On this episode, Hattie speaks with flautist Kathryn Williams, co-author of the Independent Society of Musicians's (ISM) Dignity at Work 2 study, which looked into the experiences of discrimination among those working in the music sector. They also speak about Kathryn's experiences as a single parent 11 years ago, navigating studying at the Royal N…
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In this episode of Things Musicians Don't Talk About, Hattie and Becca chat from the cosiness of Hattie's new-ish house and perfect podcasting room. We have a candid conversation about the recent arts cuts and the precarity of freelancing, plus Becca's recent feelings of audition burnout, and how we've both experienced and dealt with (or not dealt …
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Where do musicians go for support in a crisis? For many years Help Musicians UK has been the main source of advocacy, funding and research for musicians facing crises of health and finances in the UK. In response to the increase in need for mental health support post pandemic, last autumn Help Musicians launched its subsidiary charity, Music Minds …
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Today we are coming with a fascinating episode with Ingela Onstad, who is a psychotherapist and performance coach, as well as a professional soprano. Both Rebecca and I have been interested in getting to know a musician who is also trained as a psychotherapist and were curious to understand how she deals with boundaries in her job. We explore all o…
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***This episode deals covers topics including eating disorders, mental illness and the Holocaust. Kate talks about them incredibly respectfully and not in graphic details, but for listeners that would rather sit this one out, we understand*** It's our last episode of 2022 and this time, we're speaking to the exceptional Dr. Kate Kennedy, broadcaste…
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This week we are coming from a North London living room with our wonderful friends from Three In A Bar Podcast. Verity Simmons (cello) and Seb Philpott (trumpet) join us for a 2-part series of collaborative podcasting and incredible company. We talk about how podcasting has altered their lives, who writes the emails, their careers and experiences a…
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Introducing our producer, the wonderful flautist Katy Ehrlich. We are so excited to introduce Katy to you all and for you to hear the journey of her incredible life, and role in the pod, through county youth orchestra to Manchester University and then to the Royal Academy of Music for masters. Katy's journey uncovers a lot of the difficulties with …
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‘It’s easy to slip into a mode of being where you think your life is happening to you and you’re stuck…you think you have to carry on xyz trajectory because that’s how it’s been for so long…’ This week’s guest is the soprano Betty Makharinsky who spoke to me (Hattie) during a day of rehearsals for the charity and organisation she co-founded, Vache …
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This episode we are sharing the space with BBC Radio 3 presenter and flautist, Hannah French. Recorded in a North London office space, we listened as Hannah explained to us her journey to a diagnosis of Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, a collagen deficiency which affects the soft tissue and has impacted her ability to walk, play the flute and live life as s…
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This week on TMDTA, Becca and Hattie chat with Guy Withers, Artistic Director, founder and CEO of Waterperry Opera Festival, about this year's upcoming festival which will celebrate it's fifth anniversary with an innovative eight-day open-air collection of eight productions in Waterperry, Oxfordshire. As usual, Becca and Hattie want to know more ab…
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Hattie and Rebecca are joined this week by violinist and podcaster Cliodhna Ryan. Delving into the years Cliodhna spent in the busyness of London, Cliodhna talks about her move back to Ireland and the creative projects that sprung from the move. Violinist in the Irish Chamber Orchestra, Cliodhna speaks about the realities of freelance life, as well…
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Welcome back! A while back, we talked with photographer Olivia Da Costa (after our #gifted photoshoot) about her new career as a photographer specialising in musicians' portraits and what's led her to this point. Olivia shares with us her journey through music school and college, through a complex relationship with the cello and music, and into the…
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Today we are joined by consultant laryngologist, voice disorders specialist and singer Declan Costello! We speak about common vocal injury among singers, the technicalities of his practice, what happens in vocal surgery and whether some injuries are irreversible. Check out Declan here Declan's Biography Mr Costello studied music at St John's Colleg…
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Trigger warning: eating disorders and mental illness Part 2: We return to Rosie's story to hear about both the rock bottom and how she moved onwards and upwards past it. We would recommend listening to part 1 if you haven't already (released only a couple of days ago!) as this'll make a lot more sense with the rest of Rosie's story. We feel so incr…
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Trigger warning: eating disorders and mental illness Part 1: We are extremely grateful to guitarist Rosie Bennet for letting us into the nooks and crannies of her life story. We talk about Rosie's musical training and her travels all over the world, and the subsequent dark periods in her life that culminated in a breakdown during her years at music…
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We reached 10,000 downloads which we think sounds a lot so we did a celebratory Q&A episode! Admittedly we didn't get as many questions as we'd expected (for some reason we thought number of downloads = number of questions with no effort required ) but we still had a nice chat and an orange san pell on Hattie's bed. Thanks as ever for your support …
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Oh hey there again and thanks for joining us for episode 39! I could listen to Vic talk all day, honestly. Today, we present to you our chat about life as a freelance musician parent and Vic's experiences of pregnancy discrimination - a very real but seldom talked about topic. Vic herself is an amazing trumpet player who frequently appears on TV as…
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Today we are thrilled to release our conversation with violinist and co-founder of the Manchester Collective, Rakhi Singh. Speaking with Rakhi was so joyful and restorative. We discuss her life within the Manchester Collective, how they continue to push boundaries and what ‘daring collaborations’ mean. We go on to talk about chamber music and the w…
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Hattie and Rebecca are joined by the chair of the Conservatoires UK Student Network, Cara Houghton to speak about their Burnout Campaign in collaboration with Healthy Conservatoires, starting this week from 21-26 March. Rebecca and Hattie go on to discuss their own experiences of burnout, the difference between mental illness and burnout and Hattie…
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Wow, what a conversation we had with Jocelyn. We discuss the London Chamber Orchestra's recent-ish decision to drop their dress code, but before we get into that we talk about her life before being appointed the Managing Director of LCO, and now the CEO of Three Worlds Group. Freelance life is a struggle at the best of times, and we are so so grate…
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This episode, Hattie and Becca are joined by BOP* Stuart Beard. They chat (unsurprisingly) about life as a freelance musician, Hattie’s big move to London, the Sunk Cost Fallacy, turning opportunities down and general other chatty topics. Listen wherever you usually get your podcasts, and if you can, please leave us a review and subscribe! *(Boyfri…
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Frances Wilson, publicist and writer/blogger extraordinaire talks to Hattie and Rebecca about her blog and other work, her love of live music, lack of creative motivation in lockdown, and what it's like to get to know the artists behind the music. She is most famed for her wonderful blog, The Cross-Eyed Pianist, and her popular series of written in…
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Ollie West is an incredibly talented singer-songwriter, as well as being an avid appreciator of classical music. We speak about his experience with anxiety surrounding traditional music education and about the differences between studying within popular music and classical music. Ollie shares his experiences with anxiety, depression and binge eatin…
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TMDTA hosts Rebecca Toal and Hattie Butterworth discuss their experiences taking psychiatric medication following Dr Alex George's PostYourPill campaign. They talk about the stigma and image around being someone with a mental illness within the classical music world and how important campaigns like this are for normalising people's experiences. The…
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During our Musicians' Injury Awareness Week, we interviewed Soft Tissue Therapist and Injury Rehabilitation specialist, Anil Umer about his experience of injury, as someone who has both suffered from one personally and treated others. We thank Anil for his openness and his wisdom! Anil is a freelance cellist, Injury Rehabilitation Specialist and So…
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Last week was our Musicians' Injury Awareness Week and we were absolutely blown away by all the support and love we received before, during and after it. Included in the week was Becca's interview with the lovely Bob Hughes about his journey will Focal Dystonia. Bob said so many amazing things that couldn't be squeezed into just a 20 minute mini-ep…
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Welcome to the final episode in the Musicians' Injury Awareness Week monologue series! It's been the most amazing week of discussion, connection and creativity. We are excited to commit to supporting musicians suffering with injury far beyond this week. Flutist and musicians personal trainer Angela McCuiston speaks to us about her journey with an i…
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It's the inaugural Musicians' Injury Awareness Week, and today's injury story comes from Murphy Robertson. Murphy was studying saxophone at Guildhall School of Music and Drama when she started experiencing chronic pain in her jaw. She talks to us about what happened, and where she went from there. Share your injury stories using the hashtag #MIAW20…
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Songeun Choi talks about her experience with injury from her time at school onwards and how it's affected her ability to play, practise and fulfil commitments. Thank you for your openness and honesty Songeun! Songeun Choi is a soloist and enthusiastic chamber musician. A graduate of the Royal Academy of Music, she studied with William Fong and Dian…
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It's the inaugural Musicians' Injury Awareness Week, and today's injury story comes from Bob Hughes. A sufferer of focal dystonia, Bob shares with us what it was like to go through such an experience whilst still working and teaching. He talks about the difficulty in trying to find out what exactly was wrong, his trips to see various dystonia speci…
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Today Sophia Kannathasan tells us about her playing injury, which was diagnosed as golfers elbow. She takes us through the process of grieving playing violin, readjusting her priorities and healing with time, increasing playing incrementally. She also speaks about the rewards of mental practice and score study, both of which still form a part of he…
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Day 2 of the first Musicians' Injury Awareness Week brings us Peter Regan's story. Peter recently graduated from the Royal College of Music and this summer founded Fulham Fest with two friends. In his last year of study, he developed an injury in his hands, affecting not only his playing but also his mental well-being. Luckily, the pandemic seemed …
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Flutist Francesca Leo takes us through her journey of long-term injury, somatic education practices and the process of setting up Playing Without Pain As both flutist and entrepreneur, Francesca has used her own injury experience to connect injured musicians to resources and advice they may need. Share your injury stories using the hashtag #MIAW202…
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