‘How Change Really Happens’ with Greg Satell

The Evolving Leader

In this episode of The Evolving Leader podcast, host Jean Gomes talks to Greg Satell. Greg is a Lecturer at Wharton, accomplished entrepreneur (Co-Founder of ChangeOS, a transformation & change advisory), global executive and one of the foremost experts on transformation and change today. Greg is the author of Cascades: How to Create a Movement that Drives Transformational Change (2019) and Mapping Innovation (2017) and his work has appeared in Harvard Business Review, Barron’s, Forbes, Inc., Fast Company amongst others.

IDG have listed Greg as one of “10 Digital Transformation Influencers to Follow Today.”

Referenced during this episode:

Cascades: How to Create a Movement That Drives Transformational Change

Other reading from Jean Gomes and Scott Allender:
Leading In A Non-Linear World (J Gomes, 2023)

The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence (S Allender, 2023)
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The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.

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Chapters

1. Introduction (00:00:00)

2. How would you describe your work and the reason you do it? (00:03:01)

3. One of your big ideas is that ‘revolutions don’t begin with a slogan, they begin with a cause’. Can you talk to us about that? (00:04:51)

4. In many cases communication around change can be counterproductive as it can result in a greater resistance to change, What’s the alternative, what do we need to move past? (00:08:14)

5. The idea of creating a tipping point rather than trying to convince the whole organisation - can you give us an example of where you’ve seen that working? (00:11:10)

6. A sentiment you share in the book is that ‘a movement without values is nothing more than a mob’. Can you talk to us about why change and values are so important? (00:16:47)

7. There is a disproportionate emphasis on the clarity of change and then the move to ‘let’s get it done’. Why do leaders avoid this values based conversation? (00:20:44)

8. You say we should resist the urge to engage those who attack and undermine us. Can you talk to us about that? (00:23:42)

9. So what you’re talking about here is a deep counterintuitive emotional response that you have to try and develop…. (00:28:52)

10. One of the ways that you think about operationalising building support throughout the organisation and cascading the change is building local majorities. So this is another version of building the movement. Can you talk to us about that? (00:33:01)

11. What sort of reactions do you get from people when you’re sitting down with them and having these conversations? What’s the internal journey that they have to go through from their own resistance to their received wisdom around how this works? (00:36:33)

12. For most leaders, change is a side gig and many will feel out of their depth. How do we manage the change challenge? (00:40:44)

13. Once you have a coalition of people who are behind this, how do you scale the idea of ‘minimal keystone change’ successfully? (00:45:14)

14. You talk about the victory phase being the most dangerous point of the change journey. Can you talk about that? (00:47:49)

15. Can you give us a final thought to inspire change makers about how they can lead into the future more effectively? (00:49:39)

16. What’s next for you? What are you looking forward to in 2024? (00:51:22)