298: Using Rituals to Create Certainty in Times of Change with Ashley Goodall

The Modern Manager

Most people think that change at work is great. It has become the defining characteristic of successful organizations, teams, and individuals. But psychologically, change is HARD on humans–it’s a common source of stress for many of us.

When there’s change or uncertainty at work, it creates a degree of fear and anxiety. However, work rituals can help team members feel that sense of continuity amidst changes. So, how can leaders (and team members) effectively leverage rituals to foster stability?

Today’s guest is Ashley Goodall. Ashley is a leadership expert who has spent his career exploring large organizations from the inside, most recently as an executive at Cisco. He is the co-author of Nine Lies About Work, which was selected as the best management book of 2019 by Strategy + Business and as one of Amazon’s best business and leadership books of 2019. Prior to Cisco, he spent fourteen years at Deloitte as a consultant and as the Chief Learning Officer for Leadership and Professional development. His book, The Problem with Change, publishes in May.

During our conversation, Ashley and I discussed the challenges of constant change and its impact on us and our team members. He also shared how managers and team members can use rituals to create a sense of certainty, predictability, and stability amidst changes, how to support team members during these changes, the important role of language, and more.

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Conversation Topics

• (00:00) Intro
• (02:32) Why are there constant changes in today’s workplace?
• (04:48) Is change always a good thing?
• (10:36) Challenges that come with being in a constant state of change
• (16:06) The role of a team in creating stability and a sense of continuity amidst changes
• (18:08) How to support your team members when going through changes
• (20:32) The power of rituals and “ritualization”
• (28:04) A great manager Ashley has worked for
• (31:57) Keep up with Ashley
• (33:07) [Extended Episode Only] Surprising insight on how leaders can foster stability, consistency, and predictability
• (39:52) [Extended Episode Only] The role of language in creating certainty in times of change

Additional Resources:

- Get the extended episode by Joining The Modern Manager Podcast+ Community for just $15 per month

- Read the full transcript here

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- Visit my website for more here

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Keep up with Ashley Goodall

- Grab a copy of Ashley’s book The Problem with Change here

- Visit Ashley’s website for more information here

10% Discount on The Problem With Change

Drawing on two decades spent leading HR organizations at Deloitte and Cisco, in this book, Ashley Goodall reveals the truth about human performance and offers a radical new alternative to the constant turbulence that defines corporate life. Members can get 10% off a pre-order of The Problem With Change - valid through May 6.

To get this guest bonus and many other member benefits, become a member of The Modern Manager Podcast+ Community.

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