Episode 238 – Unstoppable Leader and Teacher with Dennis Dowdell

Unstoppable Mindset

Speaking of unstoppable mindsets, meet Dennis Dowdell. Dennis grew up in California including attending a college in Southern California. He graduated college with a 1.98 grade point average. However, as he tells us, far beyond what his academic prowess might have been, he treasures the life experience, the wisdom he gained from being around people and the approach to life that evolved in him during his college years.

After college Dennis began driving a bus to earn a living. After driving for five years he had an opportunity to make a choice about where he would go from there. He joined a small startup company called Herbalife which, at the time, was four months old. As he will tell you, he never looked back. In fact, as he says, “if you really love what you do for work then it isn’t work at all”. “And, I haven’t worked for over 43 years now.”

During our time on Unstoppable Mindset Dennis passes on a number of wonderful and practical suggestions about leadership, teambuilding and life in general. I believe you will enjoy what Dennis has to say and that you will benefit greatly from listening to him. You might even consider picking up a copy of his book. Check out the book cover photo in our notes.

About the Guest: Dennis has a fantastic story of starting from driving a school bus to learning and developing the skills needed to build a team of over 250,000 people worldwide. He’s been sharing a unique presentation of timeless principles for 40+ years to diversified cultures in more than 50 countries with different economic groups and spiritual backgrounds. Now, Dennis is committed to helping you maximize your life in all you do. Using his experience, he will help you to take your team to the next level physically, mentally & spiritually. Reach out to Dennis so that he can help you to start building or growing your team TODAY!

Ways to connect with Dennis Dowdell:

Website: https://www.maximizeyou.com/

LinkedIn URL: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dennis-dowdell/

Facebook URL: https://www.facebook.com/dennis.dowdell/

About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.

Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.

https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/

accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/

https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/

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Transcription Notes:

Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, howdy, everyone, I am your host, Michael Hingson. Or Mike Hingson is fine. And this is unstoppable mindset where inclusion diversity in the unexpected meaning we get to deal a lot with the unexpected today. So our guest is Dennis Dowdell and Dennis started life in a professional way, as a bus driver did that for about five years, and then decided to make a choice that kind of changed a lot of stuff. And we'll get to that. But first of all, I want to welcome you, Dennis, and thank you for being here with us. Well, Dennis Dowdell ** 01:53 thanks, Mike. And what a great joy to be on on your podcast, and especially after having looked at your background and watch some of your previous programs and read a bit about your history. It's it's a thrill to be here with you. Michael Hingson ** 02:09 Well, thank you, it's, you know, we all get confronted by various things. And I can say that all the things that have happened to me, I can trace back to choices that I made. And, and that's fine, I love to be able to be introspective and look at things and know why I got where I am. Even though some of it came about from things that I certainly didn't expect were going to happen. Well, Dennis Dowdell ** 02:34 that's true. You know, and I think that's part of, you know, just learning to deal with life, you know, the, you know, I would say life's a test and a trust, you know, it's a task with the things that you do know. And it's a trust where the things you don't know, and are out of your control, you know, which Michael Hingson ** 02:50 is more than even the test because there is so much that is out of our control. Would that we only would accept Dennis Dowdell ** 02:57 that. Right? And that's that it's a tough mindset to establish. Yeah, it's a good one. It is, well, Michael Hingson ** 03:05 let's start by kind of the early dentists tell us a little bit about you growing up and that kind of stuff? Well, Dennis Dowdell ** 03:11 I tell you, I grew up with a band, I had three siblings, an older sister, younger sister and an older brother. And, you know, for me, life was great. I mean, I, you know, I think I had the most incredible life growing up, I never really realized I was poor. But, you know, my, my mom and dad are incredible. My dad would be considered by most unforgettable character, you know, so, for me, life was just granted. And I learned a lot. And my dad was probably my first real mentor in life, and, and probably set up a foundation for me to be able to consume the rest of the things that I have over the years. And my brother died and the Vietnam War. That was a turning point, you know, just realizing, okay, the unexpected happens, the odd one, it happens, that will affect you for the rest of your lives. For me, you know, I was going to make a career in the military. And after that it happened. You know, my mom said, well, Dennis, he said, listen, she said, you can still make a career in the Marine Corps. They can Kia are all key. And I said, Well, I said, Don't worry, Ma, I'm not going in that direction. No. So so that caused me to have to, you know, look at it a whole different career and look at life a little bit differently. And so it was very interesting, you know, just to see how things went from there. But as I look back, you know, the 2020 hindsight, and that that might happen, my life would couldn't be entirely different. And I have made nearly the impact that I think that I have. So did you were you drafted into the military to go into and go to Vietnam or No, actually, my my, my brother volunteered. Uh huh. And he went, but when he died, I was considered sole surviving son. So therefore I was, you know, void of the, of the draft. And so I didn't have to deal with that. So yeah, so I went on to college, didn't do very well. But even though I didn't do well, on classes, it was still a great education. Michael Hingson ** 05:27 What did you major in or did you? I majored Dennis Dowdell ** 05:31 in public speaking and psychology. And by Wow, where did you go to college? Hope University at all school out in Fullerton, California, right. Read from Cal State, Cal State Fullerton met across the street, we shared the dormitories, Michael Hingson ** 05:49 my brother went to Cal State Fullerton, I went to UC Irvine. So I was, what 3040 miles south. But yeah, yeah. But yeah, he went to Fullerton, and majored in art, and then ended up going into, joined the federal police force and ended up going to work for the Department of customs. So that'll take your, Dennis Dowdell ** 06:09 you know, it's interesting, my and when people go through a college education, it's interesting, I think it's a large percentage of people don't go into the field of their degree, unless it was more of a job related type thing. And really what I got out of college, and I would do it again, even though I didn't do well, in school, I would do it again, for the discipline for the relationships that I developed, and the fact that I finished. And, and so the discipline to get through. And I think that's really what most people look for, you know, they just want to know, they don't care what you study. But did you finish? Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 06:52 And the issue is that that is how I view college. And I know not everyone necessarily does. And I did okay, in college, I had a 3.54 GPA as an undergraduate and did better as a graduate student. And I majored in physics and wanted to teach. But, like with everything other things did occur along the way, including I was offered a position with the National Federation of the Blind, that started in 1976. But I learned about it two years before, this guy named Ray Kurzweil, who is a futurist and an inventor, a scientist had developed technology that would actually be able to and at that time, it wasn't like you took a snapshot, it scanned a page of print line by line, he didn't care what type style or type styles were on the page called Omni font, optical character recognition. But the machine and the technology would recognize the characters. And he decided that the first application that he wanted to put his machine to, was reading material for blind people, because we didn't have access to printed material, of course. So the Federation, the National Federation of the Blind, and re developed a project where we worked to get foundation funding and buy a bunch of the machines, five of them $50,000 each, and put them around the country for blind people to use, and make recommendations in that we assembled into a report that we sent back to Ray in 1978, saying, Here's what we really need to put into the machine that would go into your production model. And I was hired to be the day to day coordinator of that literally traveling throughout the country living in hotels out of suitcases for 18 months. And I wouldn't trade that for anything. Although I was getting a little crazy by the time it was over. Then I went to work for Ray doing the same things and did that for about eight months. And then was called into the office of the VP of Marketing and who said we're laying you off because in reality, you're not a revenue producer, although we love what you're doing. But it's not as important as we got to generate money to keep the company going. So we have to hire more people to produce revenue. So we have to lay you off, unless you'll go into sales. And not only go into sales, we don't want you to sell the reading machine for the blind, we want you to sell the commercial, more high end version that we just developed called the Kurzweil data entry machine. And I chose to do that having moved to Boston and well living in Winthrop mass and working in Ray's office in Cambridge. And I realized that the unemployment rate among unplayable blind people, then pretty much still is now was 70%. With that kind of rate, it's not that we can't work as people decided that we couldn't work and still decide we can't work and don't give blind people the chance Well anyway, I went into sales and did that. And that of course led to all sorts of other things which eventually led to the World Trade Center which led to me becoming a keynote speaker 22 years ago and having a lot of fun doing that as well now getting to do this podcast, but yeah, we we make choices, things happen to us. I really wanted to become a teacher and what I realized, especially once I started selling although it even had happened before then was sales for the best salespeople is really teaching. And I've always been a teacher, and I continue to be a teacher and absolutely love it. And for me college did exactly the same thing as you I did, okay. But at the same time, the discipline, the mindset, the experience, I couldn't trade it for anything in the world. You Dennis Dowdell ** 10:24 know, it's so true in and that's, and of course, your, your GPA was about double what mine was. But I got all the other stuff out of it, you know, I didn't get the grades, but I got everything else you're talking about. And it's really been a tremendous asset for my career, and I so agree, you know, the whole idea is, we're all teaching somebody something. The question is, what are we teaching them? And, you know, and do they? Do they need it? Do they want it? And if they need it and want it, then, you know, that's, to me, that's, that's sales, you know, sales are just helping people get what they want. Right? Michael Hingson ** 11:00 Well, so you went off and went to college and learn the things you learned? And then where do you go from there? Well, it was, it Dennis Dowdell ** 11:09 was pretty interesting, because I've always been a loyal person. And, you know, when I got out of college, interestingly, when it was a Christian college, and so all of my close, intimate friends, there was about a dozen of us that continue to meet on an annual basis for 22 years after we graduate. But every single one of them either became a pastor or marry one. And I was the only one who did. You know, I didn't want to, even though I won that a lot of the speaking context, right? I just didn't want to I didn't want to be tracked, you know, to be asked to be someplace every Sunday. And so I'm willing to travel the world. And so I thought, Okay, I'm going to take some time. And that's when I started driving the bus. And just kind of look around and see what's out there. Because I didn't want to get a job. I wanted to get a career. I wanted to find something that I could be involved with, it would make a difference for people, but would allow me to travel the world and won't be hold, you know, I'm coming up to my 30th birthday. And I you know, I better get on with this thing, or I'm gonna make I'm gonna myth. So I got real serious about the search, stumbled across a startup company. And the nutrition industry, Herbalife International. The company was only two months old, right, four months old. And so, you know, I didn't really know a whole lot. I didn't know anything about business. I didn't know anything about nutrition. But he talked about making a difference. And traveling the world I said, whatever I gotta do to make a difference and travel the world I'll learn and and since then, I've been to 51 countries on five different continents and, and the stories and the testimonies that I've heard back from people from literally around the world. It's been amazing. And you know, I'm it's kind of like you were saying, you know, alluding to but you know, when you love when you do you never work another day. I might I hadn't worked in 43 years. Michael Hingson ** 13:11 I hear you. So what kind of so what continents? Haven't you been to? Dennis Dowdell ** 13:16 Antarctica? South Pole. And let's see there's seven. Yeah, so those are the two and the other five momentum? Well, South Pole is not a continent that but Australia. Now I've been Australia. Well, whatever. I'm doing my geography. See, this is why I didn't do well in school. Michael Hingson ** 13:40 Well, how come? You're not finding Herbalife in Antarctica? Come on, it'd be well preserved. They're slowing. Dennis Dowdell ** 13:49 No. I mean, it could turn out to be very useful. And you know, they're not growing a lot of vegetables out there. That's for sure. Michael Hingson ** 13:57 Though, they're not as that is certainly true. And it does get cold there. Dennis Dowdell ** 14:03 Yeah. So I did and in, you know, when I started, and it's interesting how you got into sales, because when I saw the presentation, I saw him draw squares and circles and I said, Oh, guys, this is some kind of sales. And I thought, you know, I don't like sales don't want sales not doing sales. See you later. Only problem was the room was so crowded, he couldn't get out. And fortunately for me, I couldn't get out. Because when Mark said about making a difference and traveling the world, I said, Okay, I gotta learn more. And, and I just told him, I said, Mark, I said, I hate sales. And he says, well, don't you work with college kids? And I said, Well, yeah, I did some, you know, coaching, mentoring discipling with college kids. And he said, Well, what do you do with them? And I said, I just helped him kind of deal with life solve problems. And he said, Well, do they have weight problems? Do they have financial problems? I said, Mark, they're in college. I said, you know, the freshman fit in the freshman 30. I said what College student doesn't have financial problems, of course they do. And he says, now you have two more problems to solve. And you know, Mike, the penny dropped. I thought, Whoa, I mean, that was that was a turning point. I thought, I never have to sell anything, all I have to do is help people solve a problem they have up to that point in time in their life not been able to solve. And so that was it. And that's what I did. And then I realized as I was building the team, because that's what you know, that industry is all about the multilevel industry. It it's about building a team. And I thought, you know, building a team is just mentoring. It's just discipleship. And I knew how to do that. It was just building people. And so once I got that, I was off and running. I figured man, all I got to do is is, you know, disciple, somebody, teach them to disciple somebody. And in the duplication process, you know, it continues. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 15:56 So how long have you? How long have you been married now? Dennis Dowdell ** 16:02 Great question. I didn't get married until I was 60. So we're coming up on 13 years now. Okay, Michael Hingson ** 16:11 so you did marry a pastor? I'm sure she preaches at you. Come on. Dennis Dowdell ** 16:15 Well, yeah. Man, she preaches and whips. Michael Hingson ** 16:19 Yeah, well. So she's a very involved pastor. Dennis Dowdell ** 16:23 She's absolutely amazing. I'm tell you an amazing woman. And she had to be for me to, you know, to bite the bullet and dive into this new venture when I was 16 years old. Yeah, for the first time. You know, congratulations Michael Hingson ** 16:37 by any standard. People say, Dennis Dowdell ** 16:41 Well, you know, why didn't you get married before that? And I said, Well, I said, and I would have, you know, you know, and it wasn't that I couldn't find the right one. It's just that I had to become the right one. And it took a long time. I was too busy running around the world having fun? Michael Hingson ** 16:59 Well, I think there's truth to that. I know that when Karen and I got married in 1982, as we always said it, we were old and mature, older and mature enough to know what we wanted in a person and it just clicked. And, and so we were married for 40 years when she passed last November. But by the same token, I understand exactly where you're coming from. And sometimes it has to be exactly that way. And you've got to become the right person. Otherwise, it's not going to work either. Dennis Dowdell ** 17:33 That's right. I mean, I've, you know, for me, it's always personal responsibility. I don't have any control over what anyone else does. Those are things I, but I do have control of how I respond to it. Right? Or what I'm going to do. And so I then put my efforts on what I have control of not when I don't have control. Michael Hingson ** 17:52 Well, exactly right. And if we worry, as we've talked about a lot on this podcast, if we spend our time worrying about the things that we can't control will drive ourselves crazy. Dennis Dowdell ** 18:03 Right. And a lot of people are, and a Michael Hingson ** 18:07 lot of people are, there's there's truth and merit to that by any standard. But congratulations, you newlywed you. Dennis Dowdell ** 18:16 Listen, I still feel like could be will be wet. Yeah. And it's interesting. Some days, it feels like I've only been married for a few months, and now they've been married for a few decades. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 18:26 And we felt that way, and wouldn't have it any other way. Yeah, we love to talk to each other. We'd love to communicate. And we could argue, but we could always get through it. Dennis Dowdell ** 18:39 Yeah. Well, I mean, that's part of the growth process, you know, and I think really, you know, what, especially when we should go into arguments, that's when the real love is developed. It's easy to love the love of it. You know, but to love the person who's not happy with you at the moment. You know, that takes another level of discipline. Yeah. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 19:00 So. So you continue to do Herbalife today? Yeah, Dennis Dowdell ** 19:05 I primarily am involved in the training and coaching. I don't really do any team develop my team's already developed. Yeah, you know, it's the dream come true. I live on my residuals. They've been extremely stable for many, many decades. And so, yeah, so it's, it's opened up the opportunity for me to now expand my horizons on my training platform, to be able to get outside of my company, and reach out to other other people, organizations and companies to share the things that helped me to develop my team around the world. And Michael Hingson ** 19:45 that is kind of really cool. So you continue to get to be a teacher. Dennis Dowdell ** 19:50 That's right, you know, and people say, Well, why don't you just retire? And I said, Man, if I retired, I'd have to retire to do what I'm doing. It If you're tired of doing your love, and I'm already doing it, so you're not just, you know, what can you do, you just have to go, Michael Hingson ** 20:06 where's the fun and retiring when while you're having fun doing what you do. Dennis Dowdell ** 20:10 And you know, it's so true. It just really isn't. And that's been. I mean, I, and as we were talking about earlier, you know, you know, after my brother died, and there was a complete change, or I was gonna have to change my career, because I'd spent years, you know, with the mindset of going into the military. And, and, you know, the question was, is how long would it take me to become a general? And, you know, so there was a whole different twist? And after that, you know, I had to figure Okay, well, then, what am I going to do? Where am I going to go? And when I fell into this, you know, it was just, it was like, if I had to write the perfect job description, this is it. I mean, it fulfills all the categories. And so it's just been absolutely amazing. And I think what that does, and it's, it's a part of the mindset, and I love I have a whole section in my book about mindset. And, and I think part of the mindset that's been so valuable for me, and I no doubt it's been that way for you is that I've got the mindset that nothing happens to me, everything happens for me. And I just have to figure out what it's for. So there's a lesson, whether it's good, or whether it's bad, there's a lesson that's going to be beneficial for my future. And so that's been my mindset, regardless of what the circumstances are. Michael Hingson ** 21:32 Wow. And it doesn't get any better than that. And clearly, you have been successful at what you do, whatever that means. So what does it mean? I'm assuming that you view yourself as having been successful. So what does that mean? While Dennis Dowdell ** 21:49 you know, that has a wide spectrum of answers? Sure. But, you know, I think the first part of the idea of success, and I think there's levels on it, but I think the first definition of success for me is just living life according to my values. So that whatever I do, if I can do it, without compromising my values, I have success, whether I make a lot of money, or not, whether I have a lot of position or possessions, or not, if I can live according to my values, that's a level of success. But then when I look at, you know, people want to measure success. A lot of people like to measure it with money, position, possessions, I like to measure my success based on people. And because success really isn't as much what I do, that's my accomplishment, that's not my success. My success isn't what I do is what others do, as a result of what I do. In other words, if I can teach, as we talked about, if I can impact a person's life, where their life is better, where they can make a bigger impact on their society, on their culture, on their community, that, to me that success. And so that's, that's the thing that I love, you know, because success can be fleeting, if you measure it, in many other ways, the way most of the world nuts, you know, I mean, if you have, you can have rich fame and fortune, but look at how many people have the rich riches and fame and fortune and commit suicide. So the success wasn't that real beneficial. So he wrote wasn't that satisfying. And besides what you earn, what you develop, you know, what you, you know, create today can be gone tomorrow. But the thing is, the impact you have on people isn't gone, you know, things in money can disappear. But people don't, they last for as long as they live, see, and then they can impact those, you know, the next generation. So that's why it's very satisfying, you know, to have that concept of success for me, and it helps me so that I don't have to worry about competing with other people. I just have to compete with the guy in the mirror every day. Michael Hingson ** 24:08 Yeah. Well, and successes is or at least, ought to be a lot to do with satisfaction and the fact that you know, what you want. I think that's part of the issue. People talk about success, and they want to have a lot of money and things like that. I wonder if they really know what they want. And if they've taken the time to intellectualize and think about what they want. And as a result, do they know what's really going to satisfy them? Right? Dennis Dowdell ** 24:38 Well, that's true. And I think that's when, you know, especially when you're coaching with people, you know, you you got to get beyond that, you know, you know, what's your measure of success? Well to have a million dollars in the bank, you know, and I said, Okay, what why do you want the million dollars in the bank? What's that going to do for you? And you know, and why do you want that? You know, you do that? Why? Question six eight times in the county. Get down to maybe the route, you know, driving force, you know, that they're really looking to accomplish. You know, I mean, I know a lot of people, you know, they reach the goal, they say I want to own my own company and I want to own three houses, you know, one in the mountains, one in the ocean, and one in this, you know, in the suburban areas and stuff like this. And so they drive through and they reach their goal. But they want all those things so that they can have an exciting family life and enjoy, you know, everything that's going on around, but in the process of getting there, they lose their family, they get a divorce, or kids don't like them because they spent their entire lives at work and doing all that stuff. So they reached the goal and they missed the objective. Yeah, what a tragedy. I've decided I would like $4 million in the bank. Why it's a cushion. And that's it not to spend Hey, Mike, you're welcome. So that the founder of our company, your ninth grade educated kid, right ninth grade edited data kid you know, had all kinds of problems stuff like that started from zero became the hero you know, started the company it's a $9 billion company from ninth grade educated get where this fundraiser and in it there's all kinds of politicians movie stars Hollywood and an Olympic athletes and all these rich and famous people. And then there's a handful of us guys from the company from Herbalife and we're out in the under the gazebo and and he's talking to us and he says, you know, he says one of these days you know, the herbalife distributors are gonna get rich. And I looked at him and I said, Mark, what are you talking about? I said that there's a lot of herbalife distributors, you know, you know, kind of getting rich. I said, Well, what do you mean by rich? And he says, you know, like, like, a million dollars, million dollars a year? And I said, Well, Mark, you know, we got a few guys are approaching that million dollars a year. And he said, No, no, no, no, no. Interest only. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's your cushion, right. That's the cushion. You know? Yeah. Oh, there's an interest only. Michael Hingson ** 27:04 If I had $4 million in the bank, I'd have enough of a cushion. I'd be very happy. I'm not greedy. But I hear exactly what you're saying. And that's the point, isn't it? That's right. Now, I wouldn't mind a million dollars interest a year. But that's okay. I am, I'm not so greedy that I need to have it. But we've Karen and I had our financial ups and downs. And so I value a cushion. But I also know that even more important than having that $4 million in the bank up front is knowing that I'm doing something good, I'm accomplishing something. I'm helping people. And I know that that $4 million over time will come and we've had to spend money over the years, so that we haven't had a lot of cushion. But now that's even starting to turn around a little bit, which is good. Well, Dennis Dowdell ** 27:56 it has any you know, and interesting, you know, perspective hear from one of my mentors is he's an executive mentor for senior executives around the world. And mostly here in the US. But I mean, he's brilliant guy. And he talked about the impact of each decade in our life. You know, what first decade is a decade of security. And then when you get into the second decade in your teens, that's, that's the decade of being self aware. And then the third decade in your 20s is the decade of survival. Okay? Do you know you know, you graduated from school or college and you're now getting into the work world? And how am I going to survive? And then the 30s, you learn to survive. And so that 30s is a decade of success. And then you succeed, and you say, so what? So the decade of the 40s is, so what? In other words, what's the significance of it all? How can I be significant, rather than successful? And then the hippies once you get that significance, you say, Okay, I got it. And so now you can begin to spit these get your stride. And when you get your stride going, now you begin developing, get that security, golden, right establishment, and then your 60s, and he told me this when I was in my 60s, and he's always been very keen to talk to me about things that are relevant for my present time. And he said, Ben, he said, Did you know that in your 60s, it's the most profitable decade and a man's life because he knows how to survive. He knows how to succeed, he knows what significant he's developed as his stride. And so now he can strategize to capitalize on his whole life. And so it's one of the most profitable and successful decades in a man's life and then in the 70s, that's where I am now. I was just gonna ask that being there as well. Yeah. In the 70s. You said the 70s is that is the decade of succession. Okay, you've got it all. You've done it all. What are you going to do with it all and you not going to be able to take it with you. So wouldn't who's gonna succeed who's going to take over? And that's where that's how he got me to write my book. It's a way for me to leave a legacy to leave all that I've learned, you know, at least a lot of what I've learned, you know, to, you know, my family and friends and other people so that they can say, so it's very interesting, you know? Michael Hingson ** 30:23 Well, it is, and it makes a lot of sense if you go back and trace it. And again, as you go through each of those decades, as you go through each of the things that you ponder, and if you truly do ponder it, you also discover how to tweak it along the way, and how to enhance it. And that's important too. Dennis Dowdell ** 30:46 Exactly. That's well, and, and that's why, you know, there's always so much, you know, people, you know, that kind of wonder, you know, when you're starting a new business, I mean, you just started your 74th year, and you're starting a new business. And I said, Yeah, man, what, what, what better time? I mean, listen, I've got all this stuff, what am I going to do with it? You know, let's, let's, let's get it out there, let's do something. And I think that so many people, and especially, you know, in the elderly category, I hit the class one, I don't feel that way. But I think statistically, they put me there, you know, I don't care, right. But um, you know, you know, it's, you know, it's that sense of being useful and valuable, and needing, and, you know, nobody needs us and our years of experience and knowledge than, than the younger than the youth. And so we're so valuable, and we need to invest ourselves, and other people, and especially the youth, especially the the grandkids, and great grandkids and that type of thing, you know, because they're not getting a lot of what we've been through, you know, things that have enabled us to overcome and develop, you know, that unstoppable mindset that you talked about? Michael Hingson ** 32:03 Well, the, the issue is, of course, that with every successive generation, technology, and other things have made life easier. But there is something to be said, for being in a position or putting yourself in a position or others putting you in a position where you do have to experience some of the things that you want, in a way that you have to really work to get them because just getting them handed to you, it goes back to Jesus, you know, I would rather teach people to fish than give them a fish. And it is all about what we need to do. And the fact is that we do have to all learn to strive, I think human beings love deep down whether they recognize it or not a challenge. And unfortunately, we have forgotten how to give maybe a lot of people the challenges that they really ought to have. Dennis Dowdell ** 32:59 My gosh, you know, that's so true. And I mean, listen, we both can think about we're on, we're on the same page here. And that, you know, if somebody gives you something, that's why they say, somebody gives you something, you don't tend to take care of it. But if you had to work your tail off and work months and save money and go through the hardships, to finally get something, listen, you take great care of it. And you know, when you when you have to work real hard for something, it feels so good when you get it. Right. When you made it, you know, it's just like, Okay, I want to get to this position, not for the position, but for the person that it make yourself be in the position is nothing, but what it creates in me, what is the balance of the the skill that I develop? You know, when I get it, I say, wow, look who I've become in the process, and you feel so good. You know, there's nothing like that. Michael Hingson ** 33:51 But that's a mindset that we're not teaching nearly as much as we should. And it's a mindset pure and simple to approach life that way. Right? Dennis Dowdell ** 34:01 And that that's what makes what you and I are doing in our day and our time right now. That's what makes it so valuable. And that's why I mean, this this podcast, what you're doing now, what a phenomenal way to to reach out to people so that they can begin absorbing some of the things because the things you know, we're talking about, it's not taught in the schools. Michael Hingson ** 34:23 Not at all, and, and and if it were parents would hit the roof. Dennis Dowdell ** 34:32 Yeah. Because they'd become more responsible than they want to be. Yeah, there's Michael Hingson ** 34:37 there is, you know, there are some great parents out there, but there are a lot of parents who just didn't really get it or don't get it. And I understand that there isn't really a manual about how to be a parent, especially how to develop the appropriate mindsets, but the information is there if people look for it, like It's a matter of taking time each day to look at your day. And if one of the things that I tell people regularly is look, take time at the end of the day, talk about what in your mind, what worked, what didn't work. And I don't even like to deal with it in terms of failure, because I think that's has such a horrible connotation. Oh, no, it doesn't need to. But think about the things that didn't work. Why didn't they work? What do you do next time? And that's always of course, the issue. Do you learn from things that are where your mistakes, and I once heard someone say, you know, when we talk about mistakes that people make, it wasn't a mistake, when you did it, it was the mistake after the fact when you realize that something wasn't right. Which, which is really part of the whole issue. So making a mistake, as it were, if you go back and look at it and say, All right, so that wasn't quite right. What do I do next time? That's the real issue. What did we learn? Sure, many mistakes Dennis Dowdell ** 35:59 are just course corrections. Right? I mean, that's, that's really what it is. What do they say? I mean, failure isn't failure, unless you don't learn from right. And then learn that that's, that's a part of the process. And then that seen a lot of people, you know, they they try to avoid problems, I tell ya to look for problems. Yeah. When's the last time you ever grew? Or developed or created? Or did something accomplish something? An hour developed a skill or a habit? Without overcoming a problem? Yep. I mean, so if the more problems you overcome, the more valuable you become, Michael Hingson ** 36:36 you know, well, and impart the more value you become valuable you become to yourself, Dennis Dowdell ** 36:41 right? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's good. You know, there's no story about this guy, I had worked in an industrial supply company for a short time. You know, while I was getting my, my nutrition business started, and, you know, and they have on site mechanics that these manufacturing companies, but if something goes wrong, and one of their machines goes down, then they have to call in and outside specialists. And when that would happen, because of the machines down, it can cost a company $20,000 an hour for the lack of productivity from that machine, right? And so they bring this guy in and the guy comes in, he says, Tell me the situation and he says, okay, he walks over, he grabs a little ball, peen hammer and walks over this certain part of the machine. He goes, bam, bam, bam, pounds on the machine. Oh, goes over there flips a switch in the machine goes on. And the guy says, dang, he says, that's amazing. Anything, the only guy says no problem. He says, Here's your bill $10,000. These are $10,000 haven't been here 10 minutes. And he said, No, no, no, no. Is that you know that the visit was for free? He says no one were to hit the machine with a hammer. That's what cost you $10,000. Yeah. had been there before? Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 37:56 It's, it's amazing. When I was selling and managing the Salesforce, and we were selling to financial firms, same concept. But they they did something to make sure it really didn't happen. That is to say, they had backup systems elsewhere. So like Salomon Brothers had their facility in New York, they had a facility in New Jersey, and they had to complete backup trading floors down in Florida. And I asked one of their people once why in Florida, where all the Hurricanes are, well, first of all, they're underground. And there are two because if one fails, at least there'll be another one. And you can only prepare so much. But if our system goes down, we lose like $5 million a minute. So they have done so much to make sure that they don't have downtime. And then the other part of it is what we sold, were the products that people use to backup their data, to then put it on tape, so that it could be in all of those facilities. So that if something happened, then they would be able to deal with it. Well, what happened on September 11, trading floors in the World Trade Center were lost. I remember Morgan Stanley on a Friday night they had after September 11. They found a facility I think over in Jersey City or in Hoboken, a room the size of a football field as they describe it. And they they decided that's where they were going to set up their trading floor. And they got all their backup material that they had gotten from on tape from us. So they got their tapes that had been stored in New Jersey or elsewhere. And they went to their partners who sold them technology like IBM and they got new computers, which included IBM taking computers off employee's desk just to get it into these guys. Anyway, they got everything together and from not from Friday night to Sunday afternoon, they completely rebuilt the trading floor. So that by the evening of Sunday, the 16th of September, they were ready to open as if nothing happened on September 11. Dennis Dowdell ** 40:13 Wow, isn't that amazing? Michael Hingson ** 40:17 And preparation is preparation? Yeah. Well, how do you how do you deal with, you know, difficult situations and failures and so on? Before, maybe you're successful? And then how do you deal with them afterward? Well, Dennis Dowdell ** 40:33 you know, it's, you know, in your minds, we'll be ready for, okay, because, you know, there's one thing for sure, we know that any kind of, it's not, if, you know, a problem is going to occur, it's when the problems go. So they're, they're inevitable. And, you know, they're gonna come. And the thing is, is there's a, there's a variable message to them. Right, you know, they vary in intensity, and time and weight and degree of hardship and so forth. And, but, you know, the thing is, is that they're also profitable, you know, we can learn from, and so we've just got to learn to sit. Okay, so it's kind of like we were talking about, okay, this is what happened course correction, what went wrong? What can we do right out of this occur? How can it happen? So it's a definitely an educational, it's, it's the learning time. And, and so here's what's the, the key, I think, in dealing with, the difficulties that we encounter, is to not spend as much time thinking about the things that are out of my control, but what's in my control, and not not so concerned with what's really happened, what's changed, you know, because when we encounter these different things, things change. You know, it could be the economy changes, the government changes might, you know, you know, technology changes, and there's all kinds of different changes that take place. But we got to look at what, what hasn't changed? You know, Mike, when, in 1985, our company went through a huge crash, we were radically attacked by the government. You know, people were getting radical results on our products. And the pharmaceutical industry, which obviously, they didn't like, what we did, my understanding is that they probably based on our business model, and what the people that we helped deal with health issues, we estimated they probably lost a half $1,000,000,000.19 84, because of us. So the pharmaceutical industry, they went to the AMA, in the end, they went to the FDA, and they said, hey, they got to have drugs in those products, you know, people can't get that kind of health results without the drugs, you know. And so they came after us. And we would our company went from 94 million a month down to 10 million, or 8 million a month. And so it was a radical crash, my income, at that point in time, went from over 40,000 a month, down to $5,800 a month, in two months. The crash hit March 8, I had just signed the mortgage, just closed escrow on the mortgage of my first million dollar home. Okay, I closed I closed escrow on March 1, the crash hit March 8, I hadn't even made my first mortgage payment. And my income dropped at 6% in two months. So what am I gonna do? You know, well, this is when your your philosophy, this is when the real this is when you see the reality of your philosophy doesn't really play out. And so I just started thinking, I said, Okay, I've got to ask myself the question that I asked other people when they're going through things, and I said, Okay, I see what's changed. But I got to ask myself, what hasn't changed? Now that, okay, my product hasn't changed. My plan hasn't changed, the vision hasn't changed. The dream hasn't changed. My values haven't changed. My efforts haven't changed. My, you know, and I haven't changed. My purpose hasn't changed. So none of that had changed. So all I had to do is say, Okay, how do I take all the things that haven't changed in work to create the things that I need to resolve from what has changed? And, and so that's what made the difference for me. And so, I mean, it took me you know, a good year to get to get things back up rolling again. And it took another five years to get it back to really normal. But but the thing was, you know, we lost a huge percentage of people quit. And that was the one thing I didn't do. I didn't quit. I was loyalty look to the cause I was loyal to the company, I was loyal to the difference that I was made and loyal to my customers. And so, you know, it happened. And so that's the kind of thing that, you know, get us out of situation, you know, I was just like the Apollo 13 mission. What an amazing illustration. Now, you know, we remember, you know, they were heading to the moon, and they had the explosion, they couldn't go to the moon, but they had to go around the moon, in order to get the, you know, good, he can't put it in reverse, right? Right. Now they're doing that. Now, in order to coarser, damaged space capsule, you know, there had things that they they needed, and they, they had to get into the little limb in order to survive. And ultimately, the space commander, you know, says, Okay, we have got to fix the problem on on the spacecraft. And so what they did is they took a table, and they took everything that they had, that they knew was on the spaceship Earth spacecraft, and they laid out on a table, this is gentlemen, we need to create an item so that we can put a square peg in a round hole. And this everything that's on the table, this is what we have, we have to take what we do have create what we don't have. And by the way, we've got about 13 hours to get it done, or we have three dead astronauts. Well, needless to say they needed done, they did, how they created what they needed, when they didn't have from, you know what they need it from what they didn't have. So Michael Hingson ** 46:39 here's the real question, given your story, what changed? You talked about the things that didn't change, what really changed? Dennis Dowdell ** 46:48 Only in the circumstances set is what stayed the same? Michael Hingson ** 46:53 And what happened so that everyone came down on you. And obviously a lot of people quit. What happened with all the investigations, Dennis Dowdell ** 47:00 the irony of the whole thing, as a year and a half later, they said, Oh, you're you're all good. It's not a problem. In fact, you know, me cuz we did such a thorough analysis on your products and what you're doing, you can actually say more about the products after the investigation, then you could be for the investigation. And that's why we had the investigation. Oh, we we actually got more things we could say about exam. And that's why they had tapas. And that's my Michael Hingson ** 47:29 point, right? So, in a sense, nothing really changed other than things that you didn't have any control over and you kept your, your sights set on the things that you could control when that's really, of course, the real issue. Dennis Dowdell ** 47:45 Exactly. That's exactly it might, you know, and that's, and that's what we have to understand. And that's just another illustration when things happen for us, not to us, you know, that solidified our products. And nobody has been able to touch our products, since they are I mean, all of that that's solidifying our products for for the next 40 years. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 48:06 So you wrote a book on leadership? What are the basic things that you you teach in that? What are the maybe the top three principles that you teach? Well, Dennis Dowdell ** 48:15 you know, it's, it's really more about developing ourselves, it's called maximizing new. And because my thinking is, is this, if we can build people, people can build a business. This is doesn't build itself. People build a business. So if I can build people, and teach them how to maximize their talents, skills, abilities, and attitudes and habits, then they can do amazing things. And so what I did is I kind of did a review of, you know, the previous 40 years, and I said, What are the half a dozen things that made the difference? And the half a dozen things that made the difference for me, are the six sections in the book. And the first section deals with purpose. Because you know, you've got to have a purpose, you know, if you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there. Right? And, you know, so we've got to have an purpose. And then from our purpose, once we understand what our purpose is, what what am I here for what am I in business for? What is it that I'm trying to accomplish? Then comes personal development. In other words, I have gotten to become the person necessary to do all those things. And that's why I say that when we accomplish something, when we overcome obstacles, it's because of who we become. So what we've accomplished is one thing, but who we become as an entire other thing, because that's with me for the rest of my life. And in order to do that, the third section is mindset. In other words, I've got to have a mindset that's going to enable me to endure, okay, that's where I've got to realize listen A bots control my mind. But I control my thoughts. So therefore, I get to determine what I read what I see what I hear what I experience. And those are the things that will determine, you know, what I do. And what I do my actions on a consistent basis will create habits habits on a consistent basis will create an attitude. And an attitude on a consistent basis creates my character. And that's what we look for. That's what we're lacking so much in our culture today. And then from there from that, then we need people skills, because I think the most valuable asset that we have is our people skills, you know, for the most part, when we encounter problems, generally our problems aren't as much with things as they are, is with people, personalities. And so if we can develop people skills, and learn to empower people, and develop people and equip people, then we can accomplish a lot of things. And so when we encounter problems with people, you know, here's what I discovered, My people are generally the biggest problem. But here's the irony of it, people are also the biggest solution, what I gotta do is, I just got to find people who have been there before, and this is why mentors are so important in our lives. And I've got five mentors that, you know, that really is the foundation of the book and things, the principles that they taught me. And so, you know, so we develop those things. And once, once we've got that, you know, then we can really make a difference. And then that, you know, fine tuning our people skills, and accomplishing the things that's where the leadership comes from, again, that's leader, a leader is, is really just somebody who knows what's next, why it's important, and then how to take the current resources to solve the problems at hand. So if I can get that, and that's something you can teach people, okay? This is why everybody can be a leader, they just need to know what's next. Okay? Why is that important? Okay, great. So now you've got the why you got a bit of your purpose, your reasoning, okay? Now, what are the resources that you have to create what you don't have, and then we develop and we grow, and we bill. And so that's, that's where the leadership comes in. But the hard part we talked about a little bit earlier, you know, if you reach the reach the goal and miss the objective, and that's the balance, so then we need to keep the balance. So I have my purpose, okay. And then I need to become the person to fulfill that purpose, I need to get my mindset. So I stay the course. And then I've got to develop the people to help me get there because none of us get there alone, right. And then the leadership skill, this is bringing other people with me, again, not what I do, but what others do as a result of what I do. And then once I've got there, I just got to make sure that I keep my life and balance so that I get to enjoy it all. Otherwise, I just become a, you know, if I'm just a workaholic, then I don't get to enjoy the value of, of what I've created. And so we want to have a balance in our life. Michael Hingson ** 53:10 Which makes a lot of sense. But how do you how do you pass on on all of that? Or how do you teach your team members and incent them, and then get them to the point where they go out and do what you did? And do what you do? And of course, it may be different, but how do you how do you get them to that point? Well, Dennis Dowdell ** 53:30 I think that's where the work comes in. A lot of people say how come you quit recruiting 10 years ago? And I said, Man, I said, because I know how much how much work it is, you know, you you don't just give people information. You know, it's a relationship, you know, where we're involved with. Transformation is what we want. And that's not just materials and knowledge, its relationship. It's men and women, is what we're doing. And that's why I say I want to build people. And so when I'm dealing with my guys and trying to help them to grow, you know, I remind them of their why, you know, why are you doing this? Why is it important to you? What is it that you want to accomplish from it? So you've got to remind them of their their why their purpose, their goals, what it is that they're trying to accomplish, what they want out of it, what's it going to look like? And then we need to be able to help them is it okay, what's the next step? You've got to do? A problem a lot of people getting defeated is, you know, they, they they look to the goal to the end result. They Oh, that's so far away. Oh, gosh, you know, it's just too far away. No, no, no. Keep your outlook on the goal. So you see where you're going, but then say what's next. And so we need to remind Okay, listen, don't worry about that right now. Let's just get you to the next step. Okay, you're an employee. Okay. Let's get you to supervise. Okay, now yours Supervisors. Okay, good now Okay, let's go from Super. Okay, now let's make you, you know, a department manager. Okay, now let's make you a floor manager. Okay, now let's put you into the executive, you know, staff, and then you know, so you kind of gradual, so we just need to let them know what's the next step. And then one of the key questions that's been valuable for me to help my team, just to make sure that I'm on track with what they want, after going through these things, is to say, Okay, let me ask you something, you know, because we've got to take the resources, you know, that we have in order to accomplish the next step. So the question is, what do you need to know, in order to do what you've got to do? See, because sometimes we think we know what they need to know. Yeah. So I'm, I'm thinking, why waste all time giving them information that they don't need? Why not just say, Hey, listen, tell me when you need to know, to do what you got to know, I'll teach you that I see. It helps me to zero in on the refining process. So we can give them the the talents, skills, or the information or details that they need. So when we just do that, and work with them, and encourage them, you know, and make sure that we're always pointing out what people do, right? You know, it's so sad that so many times people want to point out what somebody's doing wrong. Does that people know what they're doing wrong? For the most part, it may not know what but they know something's wrong. So I want to point out what they're doing right? I want to help them to develop their strengths. Mike Idabel. Listen, I'm so weak in so many areas, but I'm strong in a few areas, my strain overrides all my weaknesses, my strengths, my weaknesses are irrelevant. Because I'll delegate though, that's what we're talking about when starting to call right? And delegate people who can't take care of my weaknesses. And that's why we need everybody. That's why we need you know, Jim Rana always said, each of us need all of us. And all of us need each of us. Because each of us have different talents, skills, gifts and abilities that the other doesn't have. Each of us was seeing different things, heard different things, reading different things, experience different things. So they're all everybody is unique, which allows them to be able to contribute from a unique perspective. And so we need people and that's why I say that people are your biggest problems, but they're also your biggest solutions. And so that's just been real valuable, you know, for me to be able to just do those type of things, you know, no, there why No, what's next? What do you need to know? And then point out their strengths and point out what they're doing right catch up, you know, Ken Blanchard and the One Minute Manager, he says, make it a practice to catch somebody doing something, right. Yeah. And, you know, listen, asked Mike, I talked to people and I've done some events with the top 1% In our industry, okay, these are the major money or these are the top one percenters. And I'll ask them, you know, in the end, especially if there's everybody else in the background, all the one percenters are up front. And I tell the the audience in the back, I said, you guys, just close your instrument. I gotta talk to the one percenters here for a minute. And I'll ask him, I say, Hey, let me ask you guys something. Is there anybody down here? Who's been encouraged? Too much lately? Is there anybody can say no, no, no more encouragement. I've had too much. I've had my daily dose, no more encouragement, please. No more. Is anybody ever had too much encouragement? And I like just raise your hands. And then I tell the audience, everybody in the back, you know, the new gateway today? Did you see this? Not one person raise their hands. If the top 1% If we need encouragement? What does that say? For everybody on our teams? We need to be master encouragers. Michael Hingson ** 58:56 What's the key to encouragement? Well, I Dennis Dowdell ** 58:58 know that's a great question. I think, you know, it's a belief in the person. You know, when I first went up to get some training by Mark, you know, I went through my old training, the other heat assignment that he gave me a decent man, and he says, that's great. He says, You got to open up Orange County. And I said, open up Orange County. Mark, I'm trying to figure out how to open up the front door. What do you mean, open up Orange County and starting your business? There is no, no. He said, You can do it. Mike, he believed in me more than I believed in me. And I thought, man, if you think so. And so we got to get and we did it. We did it because the belief that he hadn't, you know, and I think another thing is just to give him the hope. give people hope. In other words, tell them the stories of other people who have been there before, who started off worse the nail with less than they have and made it happen. You know, those stories, you know, they they give us hope. They say wow, if they can do it, maybe I can do it. to see, and so that's so valuable. And then another thing that I do throughout, you know, just for when these times come up, I always encourage my guys to make a positive progress list. You know, you talked about it earlier, I think before we got on the call here, you know, the the idea of just jotting things down, you know that I've succeeded at what went well, today, how things go, Well, this week, how about this month? How about this quarter? How about this year, what went well, what worked right? What it did better than I expected, and then keep a positive progress was anything you've made progress on, anything that you've succeeded on, go back for as long as you can remember, and write down everything you can think of. And then when we come up to those times that are down, when we get in a valley, we say Hey, open up your progress list, and read through it. And know that you're going to come out of this, you know, the, the old saying is, you know, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, right. But what people need to hear and seeing that phrase, it says walk through the bout, and the other part of it is you want through it. And the other part of it is I will fear no evil, Michael Hingson ** 1:01:10 which is the other aspect of it is that you need to know you can walk through and not fearing evil. That's right. Dennis Dowdell ** 1:01:18 So those are those are just two simple tricks that I think anybody can do that, you know, can help. Michael Hingson ** 1:01:26 Well, and I think that they make perfect sense. If people want to, can they reach out to you and do you? Do you coach people? Do you stick strictly stick within Herbalife or what? Dennis Dowdell ** 1:01:36 No, actually, you know, I set up a new business last year maximize you. And sounds like a book title to me. That is, you know, I just hold up a copy. This is my book, of course, you know, it's maximizing you, and you can find it on Amazon, but you can go to maximize u.com. And you can see examples of things that I've done, and you can reach out to me there. I love coaching. You know, I guess I call it mentoring. It's me, situation. But similar, you know, in that sense. But, I mean, there are differences, there's definitely differences, but you know, so I'm more on the mentoring side of the relational side. And so I love that I love talking to small crowds. I love doing weekend retreats, I love doing keynote messages, you know, panels, you know, anything where I can get in front of an audience to say, hey, you know, something, successes and as difficult as you may think, you can do it. You know, and I'd love to point you in the right direction. Michael Hingson ** 1:02:41 Well, there you go. And I hope people will reach out. You are inspiring. And I mean that in a in a very positive and in a very truthful way, in a very absolute way that you are inspiring. But more important than that, and you are down to earth, you provide a lot of good things that we all should take to heart and I hope people will. So I really do hope people will reach out to you and, and try to spend some time with you which which is a good thing to do. I hope you've enjoyed listening to us today out there, wherever you are. And we as always I ask for a five star rating, I would appreciate it if you would do that. As well as providing us your input and your thoughts, things that you'd like to hear or know about. Feel free to email me Michaelhi m i c h a e l h i at accessibe A c c e s s i b e.com. Or go to our podcast page www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. And Michael Hingson is m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. So Michael hingson.com/podcast. And again, love those five star ratings. This has been absolutely one of the most fun I think and inspiring and for me educational and down to earth episodes that we've ever done. And Dennis, I really want to thank you for, for making that happen and being here with us and doing all the things that you have done to make it possible for us to be here and do this today. So thanks very much. 1:04:12 Thank you, Mike, what a what a great joy to be here and, and just to have encountered you and to you know, go through your story of what a talked about inspiration. I mean, what a tremendous joy and so entertaining and folks, you know, if you ever did a keynote, here's another guy right here. I'll tell you, he will keep you laughing. Laughing in the aisles with humor and rolling in your mind with conviction. You know, so I mean, he very, very powerful. Thanks for the great opportunity, Mike. Michael Hingson ** 1:04:44 Well, thank you. I appreciate it. I haven't convinced Dennis yet to to get me to speak at an Herbalife convention, but we'll have to work on that. But that's another story. And Dennis Of course, you're always welcome to come back. We'd love to have you come back and spend some more time with us. Dennis Dowdell ** 1:04:58 Thanks so much. 1:05:04 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. 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