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The RunOut Podcast

Andrew Bisharat & Chris Kalous

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Chris Kalous (The Enormocast) and Andrew Bisharat (Evening Sends) bring 40+ years of combined climbing experience to the mic while they talk to the best and most interesting people in climbing. The hosts take on rock climbing, bouldering, ice climbing, alpinism, comp climbing, all the climbing. No subject is left out or climbing dogma unexamined. You may not agree with the take, but you’ll likely laugh about it later.
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Ryan Devlin is an actor who has appeared in such shows as Brothers and Sisters, Cougar Town, and Grey's Anatomy. Climbers, however, will know him as the host of one of our favorite climbing podcasts, The Struggle Climbing Show. In this episode, we catch up with Ryan after he redpointed his hardest rock climb to date at the Red River Gorge, and hear…
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Dave MacLeod is back to answer some of your most burning questions. We talked about notable mindset shifts that affected him, how to reconcile contradictory advice, how to balance longevity with pushing your max, whether prehab training is necessary, his thoughts on Emil Abrahamsson and Keith Baar’s study on “No Hangs”, his thoughts on active flexi…
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Louise Shepherd is a living legend, and has been called “The Lynn Hill of Australia”. We talked about climbing in the late 70s, her formative experiences, dirtbagging in Arapiles, onsighting some of the first 5.12s in Yosemite, access issues threatening Aralipes climbing, putting cultural heritage into context, and how climbers can help save Arapil…
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Sol Wertkin is a former rock climber, cancer survivor, nurse, and avid mountain biker. We talked about new routing in the PNW, the “Golden Era” of Leavenworth climbing, the passing of Johnny Goicoechea, Sol’s cancer diagnosis in 2020, the long and difficult road to recovery, how e-biking saved his life, sailing, why life feels richer now that he do…
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Stian Christophersen is a physiotherapist, coach, author, and world-class climber. He returns to the podcast to discuss his new book about managing injuries. We talked about why only two days of hard climbing per week is enough to get stronger, the Japanese method for building technique, load management, how to rehab a ruptured pulley, why optimist…
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Though just 21, Chris Deuto has already amassed an impressive lifetime of climbing since first starting the sport at age 7. Having ticked 5.14c and V14 and done national-level competitions, Chris has shifted his focus to more alpine-centered climbs, from Aconcagua to Fitz Roy. Most recently, he made the first free rope-solo winter ascent of the Dia…
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Dave MacLeod is one of the best all-around climbers in the world. He returns to the podcast to talk about his new book, Moving the Needle. We discuss the simple decisions that led to his success, getting the basics right, how to climb harder in your 40s, the value of daydreaming, writing books, how diet affects mood, Paul Saladino’s meat and fruit …
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This is a collection of my favorite moments of the podcast from 2024, including some of the best Patreon segments. Enjoy! Holiday Gift Ideas: patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing/gift Gift a Patreon subscription 👆 frictitiousclimbing.com/products/the-nug The NUG 👆 thenuggetclimbing.com/shop Hello Friends merch 👆 Rhino Skin Solutions: rhinoskinsolutions.co…
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Fred Nicole's name is synonymous with hard bouldering. The dude is legend, responsible for establishing the world's first V14 and first V15, always while bringing an artistic, quiet approach that has defined the soul of bouldering for over four decades. Today Fred works as a shoe designer for So Ill, and continues to explore the forests of his nati…
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April Davidson (yeahapril) is a rock climber and content creator. We talked about what it is like living with her blind fiance Justin Salas, growing up and moving to LA, losing her mom, opiate addiction, finding climbing, her Instagram career, health issues and adrenal fatigue, her experiment with the carnivore diet, responsible meat eating, chocol…
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Today’s guest is climbing's Captain America, Tommy Cadlwell. Tommy’s latest film is called The Devil’s Climb, and it documents an epic adventure in which he and Alex Honnold rode their bike’s to Alaska and enchained all the summits on the striking and infamous Devil’s Thumb massif. The film was pitched as an environmental film, but the directors de…
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Justin Salas is a legally blind climber who is a 6x National Champion and the 2018 World Champion. He’s also climbed up to V11 outside. We talked about what his visual experience is like, the psychology of an invisible disability, assistive technology, how he climbs, sight guides, projecting tactics, building out a van, the Olympics and paraclimbin…
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Eric Jerome is a V15 climber and prolific bouldering developer. We talked about getting hit by a drunk driver, how his injury led to a paradigm shift, why he is actively caring less about climbing, seeking the minimal effective dose, developing new boulders in the Flaming Gorge and The New, buying a house, his career with KAYA, the gamification of …
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Beth Rodden is one of the best female rock climbers of all time. We talked about her kidnapping in Kyrgyzstan, facing backlash after her divorce, reflections on her climbing career, her history with Magic Line, disconnecting self-worth from achievement, the unwinnable game of climbing, personal evolution, why she loves human stories, and much more.…
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Today we’re honored to be speaking with Jerry Moffatt. Jerry was one of the most influential and best climbers in the 1980s and ‘90s, whose groundbreaking first ascents pushed the limits and also was incredibly influential on the direction of our sport. His autobiography Revelations is one of the best climbing books ever, and a must read for everyo…
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Chris Sharma is one of the greatest climbers of all time. We talked about his rapid ascension as a teenager, the knee injury that almost ended his career, why La Dura Dura was a turning point, reinventing ourselves as climbers, the importance of finishing what you start, what he does in the off-season, mini objectives, embracing competition, findin…
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Thomas Huber is a German rock climbing and mountaineering legend. We talked about his most recent expedition to Pakistan, how to have fun at basecamp, exploring the impossible, his first trip to Buoux as a teenager, beer diets, his relationship with his brother Alex, challenges, silver linings, partying with the Stone Monkeys in Yosemite, his new b…
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Moe’s Valley access is under threat! Todd Perkins returns to the show to talk about what is happening with Moe’s Valley, what actions are being taken to protect it, and what we can do to help. You can sign the petition here! Sign the Petition: Petition to Permanently Protect the Greater Moe’s Valley Area (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSf…
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Armando Menocal was a civil rights lawyer and climber who helped found the Access Fund. It’s safe to say that without Armando’s silent but hugely significant contributions, climbing would look very different today. Sadly, Armando recently died at the age of 83 from cancer. Here today to help memorialize Armando is Armando’s friend and colleague Bra…
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Fundamentals Season 2 (Part 6 of 6) — If you climb long enough, you’ll inevitably hit a plateau. In part 6, Jesse and I share our top tips and pitfalls for how to break through plateaus and continue progressing in your climbing. We cover the importance of focusing on skills rather than grades, doubling down on the basics, how to continually progres…
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Kaizen Asiedu is a Harvard graduate in philosophy, an Emmy winner, and a life coach. We talked about our political backgrounds and values, what happened to RFK Jr, the health crisis in the US, foreign wars, how the coming election could affect the future of democracy, mainstream media, censorship and free speech, abortion, the steel man case for Ka…
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Felipe Camargo is a professional climber from Brazil and the first South American to climb 9b (5.15b). We talked about his humble beginnings in climbing and selling soda to fund his first competition, training for 5.15 on a 3-meter spray wall, how signing with Red Bull changed his life, why we climb, what he learned from Patxi Usobiaga, his new fil…
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Last year, Becca Steinbrecher broke a foothold while climbing in the Black Canyon of the Gunnison and took a 30-foot fall onto a ledge. It was only a couple of months later that Becca woke up and learned what had happened to her that day, including the heroic and miraculous search and rescue operation that navigated a thorny web of very tough decis…
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Matt Heyliger guides me through rehab for a minor A2 pulley injury. We talk about how the injury happened, what I should have done to nip it in the bud, the remodeling phase, when to do density hangs, when it's ok to push it, thoughts on taping, pain threshold testing, acupressure rings, how to climb around a pulley injury, and more. Stay tuned for…
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Fundamentals Season 2 (Part 5 of 6) — Injuries suck. And unfortunately, they happen to most of us who push against our limits. In part 5, we talk about what to do when you get injured. We cover the emotional and psychological side of injuries and share some tips and pitfalls to help you get back to climbing stronger than ever. Listen to more Fundam…
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Molly Beard was the first female L5 routesetter in the US. We talked about what climbing gyms were like in the 90s, how she got started in routesetting, learning the language of movement, getting her L5, dealing with misogyny, staying up to speed on setting trends, how to have longevity as a routesetter, budgeting your body dollars, advice for youn…
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Fitz Cahall is the founder of the Dirtbag Diaries, a podcast that’s been downloaded over 18 million times. His new book is “States of Adventure: 30 outdoor adventure stories about finding yourself by getting lost.”But first, childless cat ladies may be a topic for some politicians, but we look at the childless climbers bringing their cats to the cr…
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Fundamentals Season 2 (Part 4 of 6) — Everybody wants stronger fingers. In this episode, Jesse and I share our top tips and pitfalls when it comes to building functional finger strength for climbing. We cover our favorite finger training methods, key principles to follow, how to apply your strength to the rock, how to avoid finger injuries, the pow…
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Alex Megos is a German professional climber and a living legend. He recorded this podcast from the Flatanger campground during his recent sending spree in Norway. We talked about sending Change 9b+, why he is practicing his kneebar skills, future 9b+ and 9c projects, what it meant to him to send Bibliographie, his America Tour in 2013, how onsighti…
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Hobbs Kessler is a 21-year-old professional runner who ran a 3:34 in the 1500m in his senior year of high school. He has also climbed as hard as 5.14c with an ascent of Southern Smoke in the Red River Gorge. Hobbs just returned from the Paris Olympics, where he competed in both the 800 and 1500m races.But first, your curmudgeonly hosts roll their e…
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Fundamentals Season 2 (Part 3 of 6) — In part 3, we step into the weight room. We cover weight training fundamentals, including the SAID principle, progressive overload, RPE, autoregulation, the big 4, and the rule of 10. We also discuss why we both lift, why climbers should train differently than weight lifters, programming ideas, common mistakes,…
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Girls Gone Hueco is an all-female bouldering film now available on Vimeo. In this episode, I sit down with V11 climber Midori Buechli and filmmaker Long Truong to discuss the making of the film, the power of climbing with a girl gang, hidden costs of making a film, trash can showers, pad-less sends, imposter syndrome, advice for aspiring filmmakers…
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Yves Gravelle returns to the podcast to help me get stronger fingers. We talked about my current finger strength goal, how to build a 3-month training program, best joint angles for edge lifting, limiting factors, the challenge for climbers with building finger strength, forearm hypertrophy exercises, how to know when you need more rest, how to com…
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Amity Warme is a professional rock climber and dietician, who has not only free climbed El Capitan five times, but has done so each time in true ground-up style. This ground-up style is captured in an awesome new film that tells the story Amity and Brent Barghahn’s ground-up free ascent of El Niño via the Pineapple Express Variation on El Capitan. …
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Fundamentals Season 2 (Part 2 of 6) — In part 2, we share our top tips for training on spray walls and home walls. We cover training setup considerations, route setting tips, best apps for saving and sharing climbs, mastering benchmark climbs, how to iterate on your climbs for incremental progress, hacks for building a home wall on a budget, and mo…
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Dr. Amy Frugé (DPT) is a former Martial Arts World Champion, rock climber, and the founder of Converge Physical Therapy. We talked about extremity and finger pain from unusual sources, how to maintain a healthy spine, how emotions and stress affect our pain, psychedelic experiences, the pain, tension, and fear triangle, ways to empty your stress bu…
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Out #131: Drew Ruana Climbs Hard and Thinks AheadDrew Ruana started climbing on the slabs of Smith Rock, and has since become one of America’s most prolific boulderers, with over 100 V14 and harder problems ticked. He’s currently a student at the Colorado School of Mines, and thinking ahead of what kind of career he wants in life, and how climbing …
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Fundamentals Season 2 (Part 1 of 6) — In this episode, Jesse and I each share our top tips and pitfalls for how to climb on a training board, such as a Tension Board, Moonboard, Kilter Board, Grasshopper Board, etc. This episode contains nuggets for folks who are just getting started with board climbing, as well as seasoned board lords. Listen to m…
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