Episode 251 – Unstoppable Transformational Facilitator and Executive Coach with Colleen Slaughter

Unstoppable Mindset

Colleen Slaughter is all the above title says and more. She was born in Michigan, raised in Kentucky and then spent time in various parts of the world, but she always wanted to put down roots in France where she now resides. Her story of getting to the point of operating her own business as an executive coach and transformational leader/facilitator is an interesting one I think you will enjoy hearing. Over the past 15 years she has coached people from large companies, NGOs and other organizations that have sought her expertise to help leaders grow and, as Colleen puts it, become empowered to make bolder moves. What Colleen does and what her efforts mean will become clear to you as you listen to what she has to say. During our time together Colleen talks about what all of us can do to become more grounded and ourselves discover how to make “bolder moves”. You also can learn more about her and what she does by visiting www.boldermoves.com. About the Guest: Transforming leaders worldwide to unlock their true potential and create meaningful impact. With over 20 years of experience as a Transformational Facilitator and Executive Coach, I help leaders understand their worth at a profound level, creating a ripple effect of purpose and service throughout their organizations and lives. By empowering them to make bolder moves, I assist my clients in transcending limiting beliefs and self-doubt, unleashing their innate power to achieve remarkable results. Collaborating with Fortune 500 companies, NGOs, and nonprofits across 60 countries, I bring a global and deeper perspective to leadership development. Specializing in leadership effectiveness, change management, resilience, emotional intelligence and agility, conflict transformation, communication savvy, and personal influence, I provide a calming and open space for meaningful personal insights and enhanced working relationships. Join me on the journey of transformative leadership, aligning purpose, articulating precise goals, and igniting your drive and influence to inspire others towards collective success and fulfillment. Let's make a difference together. Ways to connect with Colleen: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleenslaughter/ Twitter: @CSlaughterCoach About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Hello, and welcome to unstoppable mindset. This is our latest episode, we're glad you're with us. It is 2024. And we're really happy about that. And we've got a lot of exciting things to talk about today. Our guest is Colleen Slaughter, who is a transformational leadership coach. And one of the things in reading Collins bio that I really reacted to and love was that she mentioned that I'm going to really want to know more about it, that she helps leaders make bolder decisions, which I think is really pretty cool. People need to make more bolder decisions. Well in the world, people need to make more decisions in general and not wait for others to do it. But that's another story. And we'll probably get into that too. And Colleen has a new book that she is working on and getting ready to publish. And that's going to be pretty exciting. So we'll talk about that. Lots to talk about today. Needless to say, So Colleen, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. Colleen Slaughter ** 02:23 How much Michael, thank you for that. Welcome. And yeah, I didn't hear that before that that was interesting for you. So looking forward to dive in? Well, Michael Hingson ** 02:30 I was reading the bio today. And that just jumped out at me and I had read it before. But today, it just really jumped out. And I think it's such an interesting and absolutely appropriate concept and thing to deal with the whole idea of making bolder decisions and in reality in our world today, as I think about it making decisions in general because too many people. Well, I don't know whether I really want to decide that. What do you think and people don't make decisions? And that's unfortunate, and gets too many people in trouble? I would I would think you would say Colleen Slaughter ** 03:09 for me, yeah. So I think there's I'm just reflecting for a moment about ways to approach the question, I've got to two different things that seem to jump out of me. One is to say, I think people are making decisions all the time. That's how we act, right? Are we going to go left? We're going to go right? And therefore we're going to go back? Right? What I think is missing. And this is what I sense you're getting at is the boldness in their decisions, but boldness not necessarily meaning huge or big things they're doing. But things that require courage, right? Most of which, of course, one look at my website or the things I've sent, which show that being more authentic, finding our own voice standing up for what's important to us. All these things are where I think the world is lacking in journey. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 04:01 I think you're right, people are always making decisions, do we go left or go? Right? Do we go do we stop? And so many of those are just kind of automatic decisions. But when it comes to really making a decision that you know, is going to make some sort of major change or have some sort of major effect in what you do. Or you realize, well, this is going to affect other people or what are other people going to think of me from making that decision as opposed to it being an automatic decision. That's where it gets interesting. Colleen Slaughter ** 04:38 Yeah, totally more intentional about what they're doing. Right. And Michael Hingson ** 04:42 the whole idea of more intentional decisions or not. And not making a decision is of course a decision but that's not really a good thing. And then you get mad when things don't go the way you want. Well, you didn't make a decision and you didn't choose to deal with it. Whatever it is, Colleen Slaughter ** 04:58 well Indeed, indeed. Well, let's Michael Hingson ** 05:02 start a little bit more in the past. Tell me a little bit about the younger Coleen, where you came from what you did growing up and how you kind of ended up where you are. Because you're, you're not anywhere near where we are in Kansas. That's yeah, you're not in Kansas anymore. Colleen Slaughter ** 05:23 anymore at all, that's for sure. Although I did come from another case state. So I grew up in Kentucky, where and I grew up in Louisville, actually, although I was born in Michigan. I was born in Grand Rapids. That came to Kentucky relatively quickly after I was born. Michael Hingson ** 05:44 And the rest of your family came with you. You didn't go by yourself. Yes, Colleen Slaughter ** 05:47 my mom actually my mother, my hands, my mom and growing up in New Jersey, and one of seven kids typical Irish Catholic. When she became pregnant with me, she was sent to go live with one of her sisters who was in Michigan. So it was the three of us if you will, that then made the drive to Louisville to meet yet another sister and her husband. And what was starting to be then their children as well. Ah, so that was the start and then how was I I was similar to what you might be picking up now is pretty spunky. Putting pretty big for me yet also loving music into sports. I used to play T ball and softball. And yeah, I'd like to write even then I remember writing books and getting awards. And but I had this yearning, you know, I just have this really strong intuition I was always given, which has been one of the determinants for my course in life overall. And so when it came time for high school, and you know how it is typically in the States with foreign languages, we don't start them in my view early enough. Yeah, so high school, given the option of French, Spanish or German and for me at that moment, there was no question it was going to be French. And then at the earliest opportunity, I came over here, by the way, so everybody knows I do live Italy only live in France, but I've had a series of back and forth with the states about 20 years of that but just to backup that I had fallen in love with the notion of France came to Paris to do an internship I found that Wow, is this completely different than anything it woke me up especially coming from Kentucky with all due respect to everybody, all my friends and family there. And I just wanted to come back there was something in me that woke up. And because what I found is that when I'm here I have quite a different work, right? i My clients are different because of the mix of nationality because of the mix of language, friends coming from all over the world and even former America you know, even fellow Americans I mean, who, who also share this International Love. So in a nutshell, that's how I ended up here. Of course, there's more I can say to fill in the dots but curiosity, it intuition, and there's that word again, boldness or courage is essentially how it ended up here. Michael Hingson ** 08:25 So did you go to college? Colleen Slaughter ** 08:29 I did. I went to University of Kentucky. Okay, I'm a wildcat. more ways than one. I used to say that at a Toastmasters meeting like yeah, okay. Yeah, I went to University of Kentucky, majored in French, at two degrees, French and in business management. And the French piece was because in high school, a former graduate had come back and talk to the French club and said, Whatever you do, don't stop taking the language, it will seem like other things are more important, but don't stop taking it. And I followed her advice and so glad that I did. Of course, it helped tremendously with with the choice that I made afterward. But I went there at but I that was my undergrad, and then from graduate school, I actually went to a school and for avid to two schools in France. So I have done two graduate degrees in France. Michael Hingson ** 09:20 Now, when did you graduate with your undergraduate degree? Colleen Slaughter ** 09:23 That was a 9090 90. Okay. Sorry. That was my that was my high school 94 I graduated with the undergraduate degree. Michael Hingson ** 09:32 Got it. The reason I asked is, was probably about 10 or 11 years later, and I don't remember now when, but I was invited to go to Brevard County, Kentucky to do a speech. And the speech was because of being in the World Trade Center and all that, of course, but the speech was to an event was an awards assembly at school. district and breath are County. And what they did is they gave everyone who had attained at least a C average from sixth grade on they gave them an award. And B the the higher your grade point average. And the longer you did it then the more notice you got until at the end, there were actually four students who had a 4.0 GPA from sixth grade all the way through high school. But when I was preparing for this speech, they said we're starting at five o'clock with all the awards and all that and your speech, but you have to be done by 630. You cannot go a minute beyond 630. So whenever you start, you have to end your speech at 630. And the reason is, it was the day of the NCAA March Madness final championship. And the Wildcats are one of the two teams in the championship basketball country and there was no way anyone would stay in that gymnasium where the speech was and the whole event was taking place after 630. And at 630. We ended and by 631 The place was empty. I was Colleen Slaughter ** 11:18 of course you know, Kevin growing up in Louisville. There's a big rivalry the University of Louisville in the University of Kentucky Yeah, right. Oh, well. ovalized. Michael Hingson ** 11:27 I was wondering when you were gonna get back to that. Louisville. Yeah. Yeah, Colleen Slaughter ** 11:30 so low. So the Cardinals and the cats right at cards and cats, as we say over there. So that's the big the big talk, particularly around this time of year. I Michael Hingson ** 11:40 also had the pleasure one year of being in North Carolina, when March Madness was about to begin. And of course there you have Duke NC State and University of North Carolina. Yeah. Colleen Slaughter ** 11:56 I lived the last time I lived in the States. Oh, did you North Carolina, or you're welcome. My girls are born in Raleigh. So Wow. Yeah. Right there and the triangle where all of those goals are. Michael Hingson ** 12:10 So do you miss basketball? Colleen Slaughter ** 12:13 You know, I used to play actually, that was one of the sports I played in grade school. And um, no, I like to watch it. But I'm not. I just never had the habit of well, let me get back on that. What I tend to watch now is I watch soccer World Cup soccer, women or men, particularly women, because my daughter is really into soccer now. Oh, good. And I had the joy of seeing the women's team, the US women's team play when it was here in Lyon, the finals? And of course, they won that year. And yeah, that was I think it was 19. I'm not mistaken. So but no, I don't actually miss basketball. But if I did, I could you know, thanks to the internet. You can watch it quite accessible if I want to. Michael Hingson ** 12:58 Yeah, that's, it's kind of interesting. Well, of course, on New Year's in 2024. At the Rose Bowl, we had Michigan and Alabama, in football, which I think was quite the contest. And and Michigan won that. So it's interesting because they were number one in the rankings. And then in the Sugar Bowl, Texas, and Washington played in Washington was number two, and they won. So it's actually going to be number one. And number two, or will it was one and two going into the championship, which I guess is on the eighth of January. So it's just it's just interesting, all the sports stuff. Colleen Slaughter ** 13:44 Well, we can there's lots of metaphors. I have a dear colleague, who goes around the world talking about resilience and picking up habits of resilience, and he will often use the metaphor of the sports psychology. So yeah, there's a lot we can have areas in life where we can bring that in. Michael Hingson ** 14:02 Yeah, it definitely does play into it. Well, so you went to college, and you got two degrees and all that. And what did you do after college? Colleen Slaughter ** 14:13 Well, just before the end of college, I met a Frenchman in Kentucky. So he became a great reason or excuse, depending on I guess, how we look at it to get to France again. Because I spent a couple of years then going back and forth between France and the US because at that point, I didn't have working papers have the right to live here. And as a typical American, in my experience, it's much more American what I'm about to say than it is French, which is that I had no idea what I wanted to do when I got out of school. That's not very French. They pick it out at 18. When they do the baccalaureate, you know, big exam. They pretty much determine their life from that. But not me. I had no idea so I was just grabbing it jobs that came up Long and being an Anglo fun, you know, English mother tongue. Even with high unemployment in France became pretty easy, relatively easy to go from one job to the next. So I found myself going back and forth across the Atlantic for several years. You know, coming to France with a pile of money, I made waitressing, for example, finding a job with pharmaceutical industry, going back to the States, because I ran out of some money or whatever it was. So I had this pattern going. Until at one point, I was working with a Canadian stock brokerage company. I won't say the name because I didn't have working papers. But here's what I can tell you is the woman that was there in charge of the admin piece. She suggested she was on the phone with her best friend at the Irish embassy, talking about how can we get Coleen actually working here legally. And a friend at the embassy said, but Colleen, that's Irish. Michael Hingson ** 15:58 I was just thinking that. Yeah. Colleen Slaughter ** 16:02 And the woman that I was working with asked me this, oh, no, just my grandmother was born there. But you know, it was ages ago, she hasn't been that person at the embassy says, oh, yeah, she couldn't be Irish. And that was like, what do they say a worm in my ear that just stayed with me for a while. And then when I my next trip back to the States, I did all the paperwork proving that. And the here we talk about boldness, right? I think so. But I had a, I did all this paperwork proving that I'm her granddaughter and from woman through the lineage of women, because it was she's my maternal grandmother, there was extra paperwork involved multiple states involved. But at the end, I ended up with two passports, which has facilitated quite a lot because because it's allowed me to live a big part of my vision, which is establishing myself in Europe. Michael Hingson ** 16:59 And what happened to the Frenchman you met in Kentucky, ah, Colleen Slaughter ** 17:03 forgot about him. Now, we stayed together for quite a while, like seven years, and then that we outgrew that, let's say and moved on went on our separate ways. Yeah. But it was, it was a nice. It was a period where of course, in early 20s, like many of us, I was really looking for myself, yeah, did a geographic to try to get away from some things I didn't want to look like, which is really typical on the greater geographic, and that's fine. But the cool part is in doing that, of course, everywhere I go, there I am. So it's not about getting away from myself ever. Like coming here has completely changed my life. And in terms of the perspective I have, from this side of the world. And, and the people that I meet, who are obviously from everywhere, I've traveled quite a bit. So in many, many ways I went from feels like I've become much more of a prism, meaning I have multiple views multiple ways to see things. Michael Hingson ** 18:13 Well, and it gives you a lot more perspective, Colleen Slaughter ** 18:16 as well. Exactly. And that's, that's the been one of the biggest tools I have as a coach as well. And when I'm helping teams and helping leaders step into their vision and what they find fulfilling. Yeah, to be able to see things in different ways, like you're saying with the multiple perspectives through through, for example, for you the metaphor of a prism that comes in very handy. Michael Hingson ** 18:41 So is there a significant other in Colin's life these days? Colleen Slaughter ** 18:44 Is there a sundial? Well, that's a Ford question. Michael Hingson ** 18:47 I'm nosy aren't I? 18:49 Quite nosy indeed. Michael Hingson ** 18:52 Well, you said you had two little girls. Colleen Slaughter ** 18:55 I do have two girls, I can say that. They're my significant others. Why don't we say that my dates always my 13 year old and my 10 year old. There you go. There we go. Now, I've been through quite a bit of transformation these last four years. So just the fact that I'm even having my own apartment and a country that's not mine. And there's quite a streak of independence in me, because Michael Hingson ** 19:21 you're kind of making it yours though. Which is fair. Yes, I Colleen Slaughter ** 19:26 am. But I also think more more of a citizen of the world. That's how I see myself more than anything. Yeah. American, partial Irish, the fire Enos of the Irish. Michael Hingson ** 19:37 Well, there you go. And that's why you make bold decisions. That's right. So how did you get into coaching? So you worked for a stock company for Colleen Slaughter ** 19:49 a while and of the jobs? I did? Yeah, indeed. Um, well, I have this group of friends that were very inspiring for me and one of them in a real The loving way, kind of challenged me and let me know that she was shocked that I had been doing the job I was doing not at the stock brokerage firm, but something else I was doing, which was well below my competency level. And she nudged me and said, you know, you can be so much more. And she said, loving way I didn't feel criticized, I could really hear it and step into it. And at that time, a few women in that group, were going back to school. So I realized that the thing for me to do was to go back and get my MBA. So I did that I got into a school that's well known here in France, it's actually quite known internationally. And at that point, again, I didn't know what to do. Here I am with not knowing what I wanted to do. But I knew that with an MBA, I would have a much easier time not knowing what I wanted to do. And I got into consulting, management consulting, I gotta say, I didn't want to get into consulting, because I've heard horror stories about it, taking over your life, not having any kind of balance, never sleeping, etc. But I loved it. I traveled the world with this little boutique Parisian consulting firm. My first time I went to Japan and South Korea, I was back in the US regularly. So I got to see family quite often. And it was through that boutique firm that I first heard about coaching. And as with most things in my life, the bigger things that I've ever done. As I mentioned earlier, a lot of it I do through intuition. And so what happened when I first heard of coaching is my whole body lit up. It just had this big expansive experience. I said, that is me. And I know, that's me. But I was early 30s, finding all kinds of other things I could do before I mean, how could I possibly think of switching careers now and I'm in the middle of this, I can't stop and switch. And so it went on for a few years, which I think again, if we talk about life, stage stages of life is pretty typical. But then I ended up at a crossroads, I was back in the States, really wanting to come back to France. And I coached myself and said, you can go back to France. But first you're going to make a step change in your career. Because that career there, the first one that I was so holding on to and not wanting to change, actually, I didn't stop complaining about it. And so I said, Okay, you go back, but you're gonna go back on different terms. And I did my homework, I picked out the coaching school to go to, at first I was going to do coaching school as a feather in my hat, a way to have go back into corporate world and human resources, for example. And midway through that coaching school, I knew, forget the Father, this is the whole hat. This is what I want to do. It just, there just wasn't a question. I mean, one thing I will say and of course, it's been a learning curve, all of it both. Being a coach, being a better coach, but you know, evolving. I mean, my level of coaching evolves as I grow as a person, but also learning how to run a business and have a successful business. All of it's been a learning curve, which just by the nature of a learning curve, probably is clear, it has not always been easy, right? But I can't imagine like the gift in it is I don't have a job I'll do when I retire like this is what I'm gonna do this is I don't need to think about another career to have something else to grow into. This is it. I'm very happy to keep doing this forever. And that's a wonderful gift. Yeah. Yeah. So that's how that's how I got into it. That's how I felt. I figured it out, went to coaching school, still thought I'd sidestep it a little bit by going into HR and then had yet again, another lightbulb moment where no, this is actually going to be the full deal. Well, Michael Hingson ** 24:15 it's good that you're able to, to actually be a person who recognizes that and who listens to her intuition. And although it sounds like you had to be dragged a little bit kicking and screaming because you kept taking little sidestep sewing, I'm not sure about this. And then something comes along and says, Yeah, you really are and then eventually you decide to so she really wanted Colleen Slaughter ** 24:44 to do exactly what I wrote about and one of my bolder moves in the book too. That's hilarious, but it's true. And even for the major in the NBA, even though it was always was my dream to have my own business. And even though that school is well known for entrepreneur, it's entrepreneur or ship program. I initially chose a whole different major. And then it was only once the term got started. And I finally lightbulb moment again, what am I doing? And I went and talked to the professor of the entrepreneurship program. And I was able to get into it, even though I had missed some of the classes. But exactly there's a part of me rebelling, that I'm rebelling against my young good, right? That's like, why not just follow the science? Follow the, you know, the ET movie, follow the Reese's Pieces? Just follow them. They're there. Right? Michael Hingson ** 25:35 You know, come on, don't don't make life so difficult for yourself. Colleen Slaughter ** 25:40 Exactly. Exactly. But that to your point earlier, right. That's what a lot of us do. That's, that's my whole thing was my coaching. And actually, anything that I'm writing is all about just being true to ourselves with a capital S, right? Just who, what? What are the Reese's Pieces we're seeing? And just follow those just go forward? Michael Hingson ** 26:02 Sounds like a good life lesson you finally learned? I did indeed, yeah. And have you really learned it? Colleen Slaughter ** 26:10 Have I really learned it? I would say I am learning it i? Again, they're some of the biggest things I've done. Now what I didn't say I said a little bit. But for example, when I went to this MBA, which is a top school I had applied as an administrative assistant. And I'm not by any means shape or form dodging administration, administrative assistants. Not at all. But for me, it was something I could do pretty much in my sleep. Yeah, but I've chosen it as a very safe job. Just easy peasy, not stressing me out. And when people hear that I went from such a role into this top MBA program. Most of the time mouse draw, they can't believe it, because how could this school, you know, let let a secretary in? Or how could it be that I actually was that smart or whatever, whatever is the thinking. But here's my take on it. I knew that it was the right thing for me to do to apply. And I could feel it. And I knew that my job was just to apply. The rest wasn't my business, the rest was going to work itself out. And essentially, that's what happened. And so I do learn the lesson. I would say most of the time, I'm armed with courage. I'm armed with honesty. I just had an insight today about something in my life where I wasn't being honest with myself, but I didn't know it. Right. They say denial, you know, not the river in Egypt. But the real denial, you know, it's there to protect us. And sometimes we know what we know when we need to know it. But at other moments, it's true that we can make excuses install. So I think the main thing is staying open and honest with ourselves. Michael Hingson ** 28:06 Yeah, and it is. It's, it's sometimes it's a challenge to come to that realization. But it sounds like you mostly have do you. Do you analyze or do any kind of introspection everyday thinking about what happened, like on a given day, or just in what's going on and use that as a springboard to try to help you decide what you're going to do? Or how you improve? Or does this just sort of happen? Colleen Slaughter ** 28:35 That's a good question. Um, so I'll say like the German say, Yeah, mine. I don't know if you speak any German, but yeah, it means yes and no. Yes. I like that word. I find it. 28:48 I love it. Yeah. Colleen Slaughter ** 28:52 Yes, and that. Not I'm not just a coach by profession. But again, I really feel born to do this. So it's part of my nature, to want to develop myself as a human. So it's both if one were to come in my place and see my bookshelves, they are full of self development stuff, whether it's as physical as a yoga certification I have as intellectual as the organizational change programs I've been on or as philosophical right as Buddhism or whatnot that I'm a practicing Buddhists, but there's a lot that I subscribe to. But the idea is that there's a lot here that mostly shows what I've been up to in my life. So it's not just a career for me, it's who I am. And that said, I do have a really strong meditation practice. Twice a day I meditate it helps me step back from my life and get that balcony which I hear you say and my words, get that balcony view of what's going on. I don't necessarily I do analyze it. I'm told that I have a very light It, Rapid Mind, but I also feel into it. Because that's something I've learned mostly through my professional life. But I use it all over is also to go by energy and feeling, which has a lot to do with intuition about what feels right, where something might be off. What feels good to me what doesn't. And that's what I mean. Earlier today, I had an insight about a situation I was accepting, without realizing that it didn't really feel good to me, but I was accepting it because of part of the way I was programmed. And so as I uncover my own mechanisms, coping mechanisms and what's behind them, and what's driving me. Of course, I get clearer, I feel better that and it also equips me to be to help other people do the same. Michael Hingson ** 30:58 Yeah, and I think that the whole idea of self analysis or introspection isn't necessarily, you go from one thing to another thing to another thing, and then a solution pops out. But that you take the time, at the end of the day, or at some point, or maybe even more than one time during the day to just kind of think about what's going on. And as you point out, meditate, and let the brain and the body really communicate with each other, rather than just trying to run pill mill through whatever's going on in the course of the day. And if we do that, we tend to be a whole lot better grounded. Colleen Slaughter ** 31:40 Oh, no question. And I make much better choices for myself for others, and much more in alignment, we talk about being in alignment with ourselves. It's no question. Yeah, it's changed my life. And I resisted, there's another thing I resisted for a long time is meditation. The stages I went through to finally get to a place of sitting there for twice twice a day. quite comical, quite comical when I think about it, that in yoga, that yoga and journaling, because I also journal every day, and there are some days where I just get busy, and are tired, and I don't do it. But I always noticed the difference. The next day, I noticed a difference in how I sleep, I noticed the difference. And you know, the yoginis Yogi's call, it should DVT in the mind where it's really racing, I noticed that and the quality of my life goes down. I just and I maybe I'm just getting old. I don't know. But I'm at a place where I just want to feel serene, like, that's what's important to me, is serenity. And there's a lot of things that go into serene serenity, I don't just want to sit on the beach meditating all the time, although that's not a bad idea. But the main driver to help me get there is definitely as you were saying earlier, the choices I make. And I make the better choices when I come from a place of Center, which the practices I listed helped me get to. Michael Hingson ** 33:08 So for you, the bottom line is you ended up going into leadership and transformational coaching. It doesn't sound like that was the original plan. But but you Colleen Slaughter ** 33:21 original plan. In my path. Yeah. Do you want to hear how I got here? Sure. Kind of coaching. Okay. So I had been working with an MCC, which is a master certified coach. And I worked with her practice for quite a while I had different hats on there, talk about hats again, I like to use metaphors, one of which was recruiting in North America recruiting for her firm. And I learned about a company that has become one of my biggest clients. But this company does a lot of exactly that transformation, but not transformation. So here can be a misnomer, like just take a pause. And I have been recruited before for interviews to run, quote, transformation programs. And I show up to the interview. And we're talking about two completely different things with the idea of transformation. So the transformation I'm referring to is really about the human transformation. Because myself and my colleagues and those who founded this firm, I'm talking about the new firm that I'm talking about the way I founded my company, the way I know in my bones is the way I'm supposed to be coaching me my path. In that transformation. We're talking about humans developing into better versions of themselves. And indeed, that is how we see leaders improving. We improve as leaders when we were approved As humans, and there's a lot of people that have myths around what leadership is what it isn't. But at the end of the day, it literally is about stepping into who we really are and inspiring others to do the same. And so that's the transformation that I'm talking about. And that's how I got into it. And then I started working with all these other coaches and facilitators that were at really living the work, as we call it, they're walking the talk. The bar was really high. It scared me the bejesus out of me, can I really be good enough for this? I was used to being, you know, top top and what I was doing before and then I go into this group, and I wasn't so tarp at first, and it's been a journey. But again, that's that whole idea of caterpillar to butterfly, it's like, are we going to stay a caterpillar? Or do we want to take our wings and fly? And if we're going to want to fly off, we have to be willing to go through that process. Michael Hingson ** 36:01 Now, where are you doing all this? Having gone back to France? Colleen Slaughter ** 36:07 Yes, I Well, I did some of it from Raleigh. Actually, a lot of the at first, some of the trainings were taking place in Amsterdam, so did quite a bit in Amsterdam. But now I'm at a place where it's not only that particular group that I learned from and grow with, but a lot of other like minded souls. So there's a lot of us that are connected in the world. A lot of it can be virtual. Yeah. And, and so most of it is over here, but not all of Michael Hingson ** 36:36 it. So how long have you now been in the coaching world, if you will? Oh, gosh, okay. Colleen Slaughter ** 36:43 I started coaching school in September of Oh, eight and actually went in Boulder, Colorado, so not so far from you. And I graduated in May of Oh, nine. Okay, so I was already coaching between January and May of oh nine. But officially graduated as a coach may of oh nine, and started my business in June of Oh, nine. So what is that poster? 16 Michael Hingson ** 37:09 years and a half years? Yeah, 14 and a half years getting toward 15. There you go. Colleen Slaughter ** 37:15 And I was at first also having my children, which was not a straightforward process for me. So that took a while. And so I was kind of dabbling in coaching, having my children dabbling in coaching, having my children. So it was really not until about 10 years ago, yeah, 910 years ago, where I started really getting serious about my business. Michael Hingson ** 37:43 And you've not looked back. Colleen Slaughter ** 37:46 I haven't looked back. And I've just tell you what, I've had a year of a lot of flux 23 was flux for me, what do I mean by that? Easily can make a list of 12 to 15 things or people which were removed from me, some of which hurt a lot. And some of which involved key clients, my business accountants, et cetera. But there wasn't a question about giving up. There just wasn't a question. I mean, I'm a big girl, I've learned to be a big girl with my big girl pants on and I know about cutting back and, and not having all the frills that I might like to have, but I didn't. I didn't give up and I knew that I would never, for me, this is me. I would never be happy, fully employed. By company, I just that would I would feel like I'm caged. Michael Hingson ** 38:43 Yeah, so you wanted to be your own person and have your own company. And there's, there's a lot to be said for that. Colleen Slaughter ** 38:50 There. Is it scary at times for sure. Well, sure, that's when our client when the clients are having problems, right. When the economy's down, obviously that will affect and then the challenge is about, of course, how to build a business that resist that. And, and stay inspired. But the same inspiring part for me, is there because I'm not doing what I'm doing for the money or for the business. I'm doing what I'm doing because it feels very much like a sole purpose. Michael Hingson ** 39:23 And that's a commitment that is great to get to because when you can really say that, I mean, the money is helpful in a lot of ways and all that but still, when it ultimately comes back down to purpose. That That means a lot, especially when you recognize it. Colleen Slaughter ** 39:42 Yeah, it's the whole what I say to my clients, which is true when we are really in touch with our why or purpose. That means our heart is engaged, not just the rational mind. So then it's I get out of bed on the hard days not just because I have to pay my bills which is We've all been there. And I've been there many times. But wow, what a sad way live if we do that for a long time. But when we can get out of bed, on the harder days, because I believe in us, and I know I can help people. And I know that I can make the world better, one leader at a time, or one team at a time, or one organization at a time, that changes everything. Michael Hingson ** 40:25 What are some of the? Well, let's see, how do I want to say it? What do you think the biggest need of leaders that you coach and work with today is? Colleen Slaughter ** 40:36 Oh, perfect. Well, that's a great segue actually what we were just talking about, because it's meaning, that's what I find is meaning, meaning and belonging, which go together. And so what does that look like? I mean, I believe it was the Center for Disease Control. And now I didn't see these numbers myself, I heard about this. So that's the caveat. That they've come out with the number one now, disease killer in the States, as loneliness, since COVID, is loneliness. And because since COVID, most of us are now virtual, we don't see you live humans all the time, or connect with humans in a, in a in a meaningful way. A lot of my clients, and I work with a lot of smart people, which I love keeps me on my toes. And one of the dangers of us, you know, the Smart Cookies, is that we very often can just operate from left brain or rational mind. Now, the left brain is wonderful, it keeps us in facts, it keeps us going really fast. It keeps us on results. But unfortunately, if we only spend all our time there first is exhausting. But the second thing is we miss out on that connective piece, which we can only get when we slow down. When we have more meaningful conversations when we connect with our heart, and when we all are agreeing on why we're doing what we're doing our purpose and our values. So that is the piece that is most meaningful to use a play on words, but it's true. Meaning is most meaningful for leaders today. And and that's why I love what I do usually start off workshops or coaching with people that just want to get there and get fast, get good results, let's go and bite them in the sun. Some of the exercises where it's required that they show vulnerability, it's required that they slow down, that they connect with each other through conversation in ways in depths that they're not used to. At first there can be some resistance, in fact, there often is, but they're very shortly into it. The energy in the room is extremely high. They're very loud and boisterous and laughing and smiles and, and I hear it constantly, every time. Oh my gosh, this feels so good. We were missing this. And last week, last week or two weeks ago, I was in Morocco with a with a team, a newly formed team. And their leader went up and he was sharing the strategy after and he goes after that exercise we just did together where all of us were vulnerable with each other and connecting. I've just saved 50% of my time. Now we're going to have a much more efficient collaboration together. It was amazing, because he was one of the ones and we were preparing the day together. He was reticent about embarking on some of these exercises where vulnerability and connection would be highlighted. But now he's a winner when exercising and he's a winner and he sees how that works. Along with the rational, logical mind. Michael Hingson ** 43:47 How does the CDC loneliness play into that? Colleen Slaughter ** 43:53 How does it play into that because when people are connecting from their true selves, like we started off talking about this earlier, right at the very beginning of our conversation, when people are revealing their true selves. Now, I don't mean naked and I don't mean they have to share their deepest fear necessarily right, but sharing more of who they are with each other opening themselves up to vulnerability that allows for greater connection which help which is naturally flows they have a greater sense of belonging. And that is the antidote to loneliness, finding meaning and connection. They say that you know, addiction and I know that's a whole nother topic, but I have to tell you, what's close to my heart are the adult children of addicts and alcoholics, etc. So we can go there or don't have to but here's what's really interesting. They say that the anecdote to addiction is not sobriety. It is connection. Michael Hingson ** 44:56 I would buy that Now, here's a kind of odd question in a way. So you mentioned COVID. And all the the nuances and innuendos around COVID. Do you think that connection really means it has to be in person? Or can it be virtual as well. Colleen Slaughter ** 45:21 It can be virtual for sure. I have some best friends around the world, literally, I have never met in person, literally, and we know each other inside out. I know that they get me completely and I get them. And we've never met a person. Michael Hingson ** 45:39 The reason I asked the question is I hear all the time about people saying, We've got to get back together, we can't, we get fatigued from just doing things in zoom, or we, we can't just do it virtually, we have to be in person. And for me, personally, I see value in doing some things in person, like as a as a public speaker, I would prefer to do a speech in person than doing it over zoom. But the reason is, for me, I get audio cues from listening to an audience when I'm standing there with them, that I wouldn't get over zoom. And so I get feedback. But by the same token, I have believed that we can connect virtually pretty much as well as we can if we're doing it in person. So that's why I asked the question, because I think that we, we worry too much about some things and don't really focus on The Connectional part of it, if that makes sense. So Colleen Slaughter ** 46:45 indeed. So it's about quality, not quantity. First of all, right. And in my words, what I heard you say, which I agree with, but just putting them in my words, meeting in person doesn't serve a whole lot if we're not going to actually connect with each other. Right? meeting virtually can be very meaningful when we connect with each other connect with each other. Right? Exactly. So in COVID, as an example, my colleagues and I had all learned about facilitating workshops online, we had never done this before, we didn't know if we could create the same sense of connection as we do in person, it was a great learning curve, we found we can definitely create connection, we can do that. And at least on the workshop front, it does not replace the in person effect of being with each other. Sure. So, but even before COVID, 99% of my coaching that I've done one on one with people that was that has always been virtual nearly. And I do have one great local client. And if he's listening, Hi, Tom. And I take the metro every couple of weeks and go meet with him in his office. That said, he's definitely an Annamalai, in the sense of most everyone else that I work with would be virtual. So I was used to the virtual space before COVID even hit and used to creating that connection. And I think, yeah, I mean, part of them Sorry for interrupting you. I just realized that's part of who I am. I mean, people who know me know, I mean, the elephant in the living room. I'm deep, I'm authentic. Some people love it. They love that what you see is what you got, some people are running like a bull in a china shop for people who don't want to be authentic. But that's always been part of who I am. So whether they're it's virtual or in person, that's gonna be me anyway. So maybe I'm just different. Michael Hingson ** 48:49 Yeah, I hear what you're saying. And for me, virtual has never been a significant problem. Because I've worked for a number of companies where I have had to work remotely. Rather than being in the office, I've had to work remotely because they're in one side of the country or somewhere else, and they're not anywhere near where I am. And so I've grown quite used to it. So when we had to lock down, it never really bothered me a lot other than I couldn't travel and speak. But still, the reality is that we're a lot more flexible than we give ourselves credit for, if we choose to do it that way. Indeed. So it is it is it is a challenge. And Colleen Slaughter ** 49:34 there's always pros and cons to everything Sure. And save money with a virtual but you might be missing out on the connection piece. So you can you know, et cetera. There's different things you can pick and choose but it's a great it's a great add on to have in our pocket in terms of ways to interact with each other. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 49:55 So in the world, where you Are human development and in in that whole space, what are some of the big topics that you deal with or that people are talking about today? Yeah, Colleen Slaughter ** 50:07 good question. Well, ownership is a huge one, ownership, because there's a fear, particularly when we're doing workshops, or even the coaching where there's a lot of kumbaya moments, right? We're all hugging on each other, liking each other, and we walk away and nothing concrete gets done, where there's one Benton that develops. So therefore, ownership is a really big one that they most teams with under complete understanding, want to see how we can get them to do that. And what's the magic sauce again, it's that why it's co creating our why. Because when I truly believe in something, and I've had a say, in what that something is, I'm going to own it. So ownership is a big piece. Another thing is breaking down silos. How do we do that? Connection and meaning, that's another thing courageous conversations go with a silo breaking down to. So silos is a big one, new teams coming together. I mean, look at it's a VUCA world we live in, right, the volatile, uncertain, complex, ambiguous. So nearly every team I work with is some form of a newly constructed team. And so there's a lot of how do we make this team at a real team that wants to be not just thrown together, but want to work together to be productive? Those are some of the key topics. And then of course, there's burnout? And how do we keep these people at the top of their game and wanting to come to work? So there's a lot around resilience as well? Michael Hingson ** 51:41 Well, and I was just thinking, when you were when you were describing all this about ownership in another way, all too often, we try to take ownership of something that we shouldn't try to own but share, and let other people also have their part of the ownership of whatever it is, you know, I'm a firm believer in the No person is an island or should be, and that we should all connected, we should all find ways to work together a lot more than we do. Colleen Slaughter ** 52:11 For sure, there's no question. But you know, and again, if I may, having that dictated or kind of oppose from top down, in my experience, is fertile ground for people to say yes, but me No, meaning it's not something that will stick. So when they can actually genuinely have a say, and there's a co creation happening in the way forward. That's where ownership can come in. And an authenticity around really wanting to be part of this whole movement, which we often call it the movement, the program, change program, the new team, whatever it is, that is the name, we're giving this particular initiative, right? Michael Hingson ** 52:58 Well, for people listening, what's maybe a step that they could take to start to have more meaning in their lives and feel like they're having more meaning in their lives and in their work and so on? Colleen Slaughter ** 53:11 Yeah, that's great. Well, the first thing would be to check in, we talked about some of those balcony moments, some of those pauses in the day to see what's happening for me, what am I drawn to what lights me up? Where do I get the most joy, and to look to spend more time doing those things or incorporating more of them in our lives, as science tells us the energy that feels bubbly, and expansive is positive energy, that means follow the good stuff. Whereas when it's prickly and icky, not good for us, limited as much as possible. So literally, just by listening to ourselves, just like we started this, this conversation, listening to ourselves, listening to what feels good, but in a healthy way, not in the unhealthy coping mechanism bar. And looking to do more of that. I mean, there was this I'm gonna forget her name. And I mean this with respect this wonderful Japanese woman, and I'm forgetting her name, but she talks about sparking joy, right with organizing your home. And she, gosh, there's a whole way to fold. There's a whole way to present that she came up with. But this phrase of sparking joy has meant a lot to me. And I often look at how can we just a lot of us higher achievers want to go from zero to 100 like this, and we think if we don't make it to 100, we've somehow failed, which is a whole nother conversation because I don't believe in failure. But instead of putting that kind of pressure on ourselves, where can we just augment our joy by 2%? Where can we find just 2% more meaning? And if we just look at these tiny little ways each day to bring in more, because joy and meaning go together, by the way, so does gratitude. Gratitude goes in there. And there's another idea is is doing gratitude list or just becoming more aware of what we're grateful for. Those are some really quick ways that on our own, let's say without help, that we can start digging into more meaning and cultivating more that in our lives. Michael Hingson ** 55:21 And I would augment that to say, let yourself feel the joy, take the time to feel the joy, and to enjoy what's happening. Because that's going to help fill your body and your spirit. And you'll be able to deal with so many more things in a very positive way. Rather than just letting everything overwhelm you, whatever comes along, that's joyful, or that makes you feel good. There's something wrong with that. You don't have to set it aside for another time, take a minute and let yourself feel the joy. Indeed, well, you are writing a book, do you want to tell us a little bit about that? Colleen Slaughter ** 56:09 I feel like I'm writing and I'm writing and I'm writing I'm writing. Michael Hingson ** 56:12 That goes? Colleen Slaughter ** 56:13 Yes. It's like it's a thing ever gonna see the light of day, I am at the very, very last part. Just before I'm handing this over to the editors, and the for production, and then for launching, and I'm thrilled I've been doing a boulder move of the week. For the last decade, I can't believe it. I'm February, March of this year, it's going to be 10 years, I've been doing a boulder move of the week, which goes out to my mailing list. And I'll give you just in case your listeners want to hear what that is the link for that I'll give it a minute. But I wanted to do a book during COVID, I was feeling really low. And I thought I know I love to write. This is my craft. And I want to show myself I'm also a writer, and basically was act of self love to start it. What I found was the bolder moves themselves have evolved over the 10 years as I've evolved, they used to be like when I started my business, it was very much about sales, and what do you want me to be so that I can make more money. And it's evolved, like I've already mentioned about stepping into my purpose, and I'm not going to be something for someone else. If it means not being me, let me put it that way, I will only be myself. And so the bolder move themselves when I started writing the book, they've also evolved even in the three and a half years since I started this process. So it's been an amazing journey, just writing it, I think you would know that to my call the whole process. And I'm thrilled to say it's a collection of bolder moves. And I mentioned earlier about the caterpillar, the working title right now is the caterpillars journey 365 moves to Boulder leadership. And by the way, bold is a word that of course Michael given I've been talking about a lot today, I was actually using boulder 10 years ago, because it just described a lot more of who I am and my journey, and also what it takes to be truly authentic, especially in this world, where there's just so much uncertainty. So that's my book. And if by chance you'd love to sign up, I'd love to have you I'd love to be of service in this way that I do a bolder move of the week, it's no more than three lines. I don't sell because I don't like getting emails of that nature to myself. But if you go to my website, which is bolder, BOL, Dr. mov es bolder, moves.com, you'll see in the first fold, you can click on yes, I want transformation, and you'll be brought where you can just put your first name and your email. And again, delighted be of service in that way. And if you are, if you do choose to do that, you'll have more information on the specific dates of when my book comes out. I'm Michael Hingson ** 59:06 gonna go do it. 59:10 That's cool. That's sweet. Michael Hingson ** 59:13 Well, I think it's I think it's relevant and important. And I'm always can can we look at past bold moves as well? Oh, Colleen Slaughter ** 59:20 that's a good question. Not yet. Not yet. But I can see if we can put that together. But I can tell you that when the book comes out, you're gonna have 360 65 of Michael Hingson ** 59:29 them. Yeah. Well, I was thinking though, that if you've been doing boulder moves every week for 10 years, that's now well, if we go by the numbers, and if it's 10 years, that's 520. So there are more there. But it would be interesting, since you've sent them out they must be somewhere it'd be kind of fun to be able to go back in. Yeah, well, Colleen Slaughter ** 59:49 I can my team has them for sure. We don't have them. I don't believe out but for sure what what you would notice in the early bolder moves. Thank you caught that more transaction general things, right? More transactional ideas like? I don't know, I'll throw something out perform better. For example, I don't know, I don't even know if that's a bolder move, but something to that degree. Well, now you're gonna find things like forgive. You're gonna find things like remember your divinity, right? I mean, it's not all going to be more spiritually themed. It's not, right. But there are a lot more meaning involved in the bolder moves up today. And the ones that you'll find in the book, for sure. Michael Hingson ** 1:00:38 Well, I think it's cool. And I am gonna go sign up when we're done here. But if people want to reach out and and maybe explore how we you work with them, and so on, obviously, there's Bolder moves.com. But is that the best way to reach out to you? Or how can they contact you? And yeah, Colleen Slaughter ** 1:00:55 well, they can either find me on LinkedIn, So Colleen Slaughter or my email, which is Colleen. And that's c o l l e e n. So two L's into ease and at boldermoves.com. And I'd be delighted. Michael Hingson ** 1:01:13 And again, good Irish name. What more can we ask Colleen Slaughter ** 1:01:16 for? Yeah, little Irish maiden. Michael Hingson ** 1:01:21 I was in Ireland, doing some work with the Irish guy dog school back in 2003. We spent a couple of weeks over there. And I did not go kiss the Blarney Stone but, but definitely enjoyed Ireland a lot. Yeah. Never Never did meet a leprechaun. I was kind of hoping to do that. But Colleen Slaughter ** 1:01:38 that's funny. Yeah, I was just in an Irish event a few weeks ago with Irish embassy here. I just I do love being I've only been there a few times. So I always I often say I'm not really Irish. I just have an Irish passport. Because I want to be respectful of the quote, real Irish people. But I love being around. They're just so nice. It just this is such a relaxed. There's that word authentic. I enjoy it. Michael Hingson ** 1:02:04 I hear you. And that's what I found over there as well. Well, I want to thank you for being with us and taking all this time. And definitely when the book comes out, we're gonna have to do everything we can to help tell the world about it. So you keep me posted on on all of that. Will there be an audio version? Of course, those of us who are prejudiced about that? I hope so I'm Colleen Slaughter ** 1:02:28 working with on it. She's suggesting that we do an audio version? Yes, please do. You would like that. Okay, cool. Michael Hingson ** 1:02:34 I would well, I'm prejudiced. But I would Yeah, that would be great. Colleen Slaughter ** 1:02:38 Yeah. And I'm looking at creating an app as well. So that, because it's a Dale, it's not really a daily reader, but there are different moves, and no one's probably going to read it from cover to cover or listen to it cover to cover. But if you can get it in different. You know, one day get a different one for sure. Your inbox something of that nature. That Michael Hingson ** 1:03:00 would be cool. Well, thank you very much for being here. And I want to thank you for listening out there. I want you to know, we really appreciate it. I would appreciate any thoughts. And I'm sure Colleen would as well. We'll share anything we hear. And we would love to hear from you about your thoughts about today. I do ask that if you would please give us a five star rating wherever you're listening to us. We really appreciate your ratings and your reviews a lot. And also for all of you and Colleen, you as well. If you know of anyone else who might be a good guest for unstoppable mindset, we want to hear from you. We are always looking for more people to come and be with us and tell stories and have a great conversation because that's what this is all about. So please don't hesitate to recommend folks who want to come on. And again, I want to just thank you all for being here and for being a part of this today in Killeen. Once again, for you, thanks very much. This has been a lot of fun. So thank you Colleen Slaughter ** 1:04:01 has been Thank you. And we I don't know if you were both wearing blue shirts. Almost the same color. So we both got the memo. Yeah, here we are together hosting. It's been a lot of fun. And Michael Hingson ** 1:04:14 for me it's a little bit more random because I didn't look at my shirt this morning. No, but Colleen Slaughter ** 1:04:19 it's funny. Great minds think alike. For sure. Michael Hingson ** 1:04:23 Well, thanks for being here. Colleen Slaughter ** 1:04:25 All right, take good care. Nice to meet you. I'd speak more and thank you everybody for listening. **Michael Hingson ** 1:04:36 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.