Understanding The Times // Living Generously, Part 3

A Different Perspective Official Podcast

You’ve heard that old Chinese curse, I guess, “May you live in interesting times”. Well, these days we certainly are living in interesting times. Very interesting times, especially when it comes to this whole topic of money and finances.

Alex: Thanks for having me, Berni.

Berni: Hey, is it just me or had the world gone crazy? I mean governments seem to be spending so much more money than they have. What’s going on in this world?

Alex: Yeah, look, it is quite amazing. I mean we’ve got a situation, really around the world, where we’ve been living beyond our means for a very long time. Probably 30, 40 years. As a result of that, it’s now sort of coming home to roost. There’s a lot of pressure on societies. Most governments around the world have racked up enormous debts over a very long time. Through running what we call budget deficits. Which simply means there’s more money going out in terms of spending versus money coming in in the form of taxes. And you can only do that for so long before you go broke.

Berni: That’s not rocket science, right? I mean, you and I both know that in our personal budgets.

Alex: Exactly right, it’s not. But I think the problem is governments feel under enormous pressure to deliver on what they’ve promised. And no politician wants to be the bad guy who takes away the cookies, if you like. So many of them have promised all sorts of things and you see these endless debates on TV around issues around healthcare, retirement, and so forth.

And so governments have promised many benefits for the citizens into the future that 100 years ago they either didn’t need to pay, because of demographics: we didn’t live as long 100 years ago. But now we’re living longer the pressure on the economic system is much harder. The number of people in the work who are supporting paying taxes to fund people in retirement, for example, is very, very out of whack and it’s getting harder and harder.

Berni: I mean, US debt is ballooning, right?

Alex: Yeah, I mean their government alone owes $19 trillion and that’s just the federal government. That doesn’t include state local government and doesn’t include the household debt which takes you to $60 trillion and it’s mind-boggling.

Berni: Just to put trillion in perspective, if I were to count from one to a trillion, right, one second at a time would take me almost 32,000 years. Just to put the number trillion ... because trillion doesn’t mean anything to us, right? It’s an unbelievably large number.

Alex: Exactly, although the question I always ask people is how many zeros in a trillion.

Berni: What is it?

Alex: It’s 12 zeros, it’s frightening.

Berni: And so is that spending behaviour translating into our personal psyche as well?

Alex: Absolutely. I think it’s very pervasive now at the household level. Many of us feel under enormous pressure to, you know, to keep up with the Joneses. To have this sort of pressure to have a house, to have a car, to have all these sorts of things is ... it’s endless.

Doesn’t matter really where you live in the world there’s always a pressure to have more. And the media certainly feeds on that through advertising and so forth. So it’s very, very difficult for now for people to try and bring in the biblical perspective and the eternal perspective into their money.

Berni: OK, well let’s talk about the biblical ... because it’s going to take eternity for some of these people to pay off their debt.

Alex: Yeah.

Berni: Right. So let’s bring the biblical perspective. What are the ... what does God’s word actually have to say about money, about wealth, about debt. What’s the stuff that strikes you for from God’s word?

Alex: You know, look, well, it’s amazing how much it does say this. More than 2300 verses in the Bible on money, wealth and possessions.

Berni: Wow.

Alex: And it was 15% of Jesus’ teaching. He talked about money more than anything else. Of course there’s good reason for that. And that is because of the impact that it has on our relationship with God. But in terms of day-to-day finances, one of the classic ones is in the Proverbs where it says debt can lead to slavery. It’s a warning message.

In fact, many of the messages in the Bible about money are actually warning messages. So the problem at the moment, when we’re talking about these debts around the world and in the US and indeed in most countries, is you have to pay the debt back.

Berni: Yes.

Alex: And of course you have to service the interest on the debt. And as the debt gets bigger and bigger it gets harder and harder just to pay the interest bill. The most frightening country in the world, I think, is Japan where a third of their government budget is just paying the interest on the debt. And the interest is at 1% or below on the debt.

Berni: Wow.

Alex: So if interest rates went to 3% in Japan, essentially the entire government revenue consumes the government budget. It’s frightening.

Berni: That’s scary. What about at a personal level. What bit of wisdom have you got for someone who’s maybe not that well off? I mean we look at all these big numbers with governments and all these wealthy people who drive flash cars. That’s well and good. But the average person on the street, particularly the average person who’s struggling even to put food on the table. What does God’s word speak into their life about money?

Alex: Well the first thing I think is it speaks very much to your mentality and your perspective. And that is to firstly acknowledge that the money that God has given you, whether it’s a little or whether it’s a lot, is actually God’s money. And when you have that perspective it totally changes the way you think about it.

Berni: How did it change your way? Like, it’s easy to ...

Alex: Say ...

Berni: Say that, right.

Alex: Yeah.

Berni: But how do you live that, how do you live this notion that the money, the resources that I have do not belong to me? Because I suspect that very few people live that way.

Alex: I think you’re right, in most cultures. I think for me it started by assessing the way I spent my money and saying does my budget, does it honour God? Am I using the money to fund the things that I really believe in? You see, what you do with your money really actually states what you believe. In fact, once ... someone said to me once that your bank statements are like theological documents because they tell you what you believe.

Berni: Yeah.

Alex: How you spend the money from your bank account or your credit card really says a lot about what you truly believe. And so for me the big shift is thinking, ‘Well, OK, if that’s the case I need to actually start using this money to fund what I believe’. And what I believe of course is that Jesus is coming again and I want to share the good news with as many people as possible. So I need to use the money to fund that.

Berni: But OK, let’s say I’m not that flush with money. Let’s say I don’t have that much to spare, right. And now it’s a decision between not just giving towards something that is happening in God’s mission field and my luxury spending, my discretionary spending. But it’s actually going to bite into seriously my lifestyle and how much food I can put on the table and where I can live and ... What do you do with that?

Alex: Yeah, and look I think everyone has to pray and ask God for guidance with what ... the kind of lifestyle he wants. We all live in different parts of the world, in different circumstances. And we actually ... you know, God needs people in poor communities, he needs people in rich communities. But on a personal level I think as Christians we should live what I call simply. That is, we don’t need to live extravagantly. And what we do with our money should have an eternal perspective to it. So if you have a tough decision between giving up something now and having something, you know, in the future. Sometimes we need to give it up now because of the ... the reward will actually be in heaven.

Berni: Yeah.

Alex: You’ll be rewarded for what you do with your money. And that’s something ... Not only will you be rewarded but we actually have to give an account.

Berni: Yeah.

Alex: We actually have to say, ‘God, this is what I’ve done with the resources you’ve given me.’

Berni: Well that’s the parable, isn’t it? The three servants and the master gave away. Gave one five talents, the other two and the other one talent.

Alex: Yeah.

Berni: And expected a pretty significant, 100% return.

Alex: Return, yeah. Multiplication.

Berni: Yeah a big return, yeah. The guy who did nothing, he was in some serious trouble.

Alex: Yes, and that whole parable I think speaks to a few things. I think one that we’re stewards of what God’s given us. Two is that one day Jesus will return and we have to give an account for what we’ve done. And the third thing of course is that what he’s given us, we’re actually to do something with it.

We have to, I call it investing in eternity. Now that doesn’t mean you’re putting your money in property or the share market or whatever. But whatever you’re doing with your money, you need to invest in eternity. Because one day we’re going to give an account and we’ll of course be rewarded for what we’ve done with the resources that God’s given us.

Berni: The most profound part of that parable for me is that a talent wasn’t a small amount of money. A talent was actually about 15 years’ wages for a labourer. So even the guy who got one talent got 15 years’ wages to invest which is rather a lot. And the guy who got five talents got almost, well, more than a lifetime’s worth of wages to invest. So God has really given us all rather a lot.

Alex: Absolutely. And often we forget that. I think one of the big things is to actually be grateful.

Berni: Yeah.

Alex: And to be content with what we’ve got.

Berni: Yeah.

Alex: Which is challenging in this world we live in.

Berni: Contentment is hard when the advertising industry keeps on making you discontent.

Alex: Absolutely.

Berni: Alright, great talking to you. We’ll do this again, hey?

Alex: Absolutely, look forward to it.