Courage Quotient

Coping

Summary

This episode of “Coping” discusses the concept of courage and introduces seven daily acts of courage as outlined by Robert Staub in his TED Talk. Kevin and Kathy engage in a thoughtful dialogue exploring each of the seven acts and share personal experiences and insights on how these acts manifest in their lives as well as the importance of practicing courage daily. At the end, you’ll be given the opportunity to rate yourself on each act of courage to determine your overall 'courage quotient'.

Kevin

Oh, hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of “Coping”.

Kathy

Yes, welcome back, everyone. Today, we want to continue our discussion on courage that we started our last podcast. And I have a question for you, Kevin: would you consider yourself a courageous person?

Kevin

Well, based on our last podcast episode conversation, I've been rethinking my definition of courage, the models and myths that I've developed over the years. I would say that I am a risk taker. I like to take risks, I like that feeling of taking a leap of faith, and then that leap being met with some success or improvement. So I don't know if I would say I'm courageous, but I definitely am open to taking calculated risks. And what about you? Do you consider yourself to be a courageous person?

Kathy

I think the same applies to if I consider myself to be a creative person. The answer is traditionally no. But I think that if I look into my life, I see lots of acts of courage and risk-taking. So others would say that about me. So I think this discussion today is really going to widen and round out our view of what courage looks like. So let's get started.

Kathy

So as you all know, in a recent spring retreat, I shared about this topic of courage. And I also introduced executive leadership coach speaker Robert Staub, who did a 2016 TED Talk called Daily Acts of Courage. And there he talks about how we can practice small acts every day to strengthen the courage of our hearts. It's such an interesting concept. And there are actually seven everyday acts of courage we can all engage in every single day to build up our courage.

Kathy

So the first act of courage is the courage to dream and express it. Do you have visions, goals, and dreams, Kevin? How's that for you?

Kevin

Yes, ever since a young age, I was a dreamer, had big plans for my life, envisioned my goals and went after them. I would say I erred on the side of dreaming and didn't always have a plan to accomplish those dreams and goals. In our relationship, I'm definitely the dreamer, but you're the person that helps make those dreams and goals become a reality. So that's why I think we partner well together. What about you? How do you express your dreaming and goal setting in your life, knowing that you're a very practical person?

Kathy

So I would say, and I often say to students, it's okay not to be a dreamer, not to have a dream, but what happens though is that we do have to have a plan for our lives moving forward. And if you look into my life, you see lots of dreaming, lots of ideas being carried out. There's two sources. We have to tap into the sources of where our dreaming can come from. For me, it has been my faith, where I actively am listening. That would be the number one source. And the second place is for the needs of those people I serve, I'm always dreaming for them. And that is how the dream comes true for me. I personally still to this day don't have any dreams, but if I dream for those that I'm helping and serving, there's lots. And I can then take steps toward that, courageous steps towards that. So it's very untraditional.

Kevin

Yeah, and I think that that leads us to the second act of courage, which is the courage to see current reality. This is something that I see you do particularly well, especially for the students that you work with. Do you have the ability to see the truth and not have blinders on? How do you have that unique and innate ability to see current reality? How do you do that?

Kathy

This is a really hard one, especially in light of how difficult our experiences are, the world around us, the reality, the harsh reality that we all are living in right now. I think first of all is that the ability to see reality is to admit truth to yourself, to be open to truth. I think it's a gift. I think discernment is a gift that we are given. So I've had that from a young age, the gift to see things as they are. But that doesn't mean that I wanted to always step into that. There was a period of time in my life where I shut my eyes to the harsh reality and I lived in a fantasy world and a dream-like state of like, oh, everyone's helpful, everyone's nice, everyone has my best interest at heart.

Kathy

I don't believe that any longer, sadly. But I know that now we live in a broken world, but we're here to help redeem the broken places. So that helps me to embrace the truth of things because only when we can see broken things as they are can we actually move in to try and come alongside to help fix, support, et cetera.

Kevin

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Kathy

And what about you? Do you feel like you have the ability to see truth without the blinders on?

Kevin

I've had to learn how to do this. I think the practice of seeing current reality and accepting it and not getting lost in the dream world like you said, is a practice I've developed in my work as a chaplain with other people, especially those who are sick and in pain in the hospital, getting new diagnoses. There's a sacredness and the ability to be present to somebody in their story and in their pain and not try to silver line their difficult and challenging experience. And so to support somebody who is struggling is the ability to see them and their pain and not trying to fix it. So I've, I've practiced that quite a lot in my work and gotten pretty good at it. Even though it doesn't come as naturally to me.

Kathy

Yes. To sit in the present reality with them, which is very bleak at times.

Kevin

Right. Right.

Kathy

And you know, that leads us to the third act of courage, the courage to confront. You know, truth has a lot to do with courage. So first we're talking about the truth of acknowledging reality. And then the second part is the courage to confront. And this one, as we know, is especially difficult. One I've had to work on over the years to be able to not only see the truth, but then confront it when necessary. I would say that I'm okay at doing it. I just know it's part of leadership now. And it's just one of those things, skills that you can have. It doesn't ever make it any easier, I would say, but I do have that skill now in my tool bag, but it's still really hard. How about you?

Kevin

Yeah, I think that when I think about confrontation it makes me a little bit nervous. I don't like hurting other people's feelings. I care way too much about what people think about me, how they perceive me, and I want everybody to like me. And so confrontation is a hard practice when you care a lot about those things and for me a little bit too much about those things. But I've learned in my life that the most meaningful relationships, the most meaningful experiences, are the ones where I'm willing to speak the truth, to tell the truth to somebody, to endure confrontation, and to face things head-on. And so I don't like to be the one to initiate the confrontation, but if somebody has something they want to tell me about that I've done, something that I did or said and wasn't aware of, I want somebody to point it out to me because I don't want to be, you know, hurting other people's feelings or to be doing something that I haven't given a lot of thought to so, yeah, confrontation is hard, but I've I've learned that there can be some good that comes from healthy confrontation.

Kathy

Yes, that's actually the fourth act of courage that you're talking about. So the third one is the courage to confront and the fourth is the courage to be confronted.

Kevin

Yeah, I think I find this one to be much easier for me. What about for you? How do you feel about confronting and being confronted?

Kathy

Yeah, so again, I think both these areas have had to work on a lot as a two on the Enneagram -- helper -- I didn't like other people's perception of me and that was very hard. I was very sensitive as a young child to criticism, to people saying things. As I grew older I began to understand the value of standing up for truth. I am an advocate. So being able to confront others, but then also having to be confronted. It works both sides of the coin -- If we can confront we have to be able to be confronted. So it's hard But I would say again, it's something that I'm used to doing fairly often. I had someone do it this week about an experience that they had in one of our programs and they're like, "Oh, sorry to tell you this" and I was like, "No tell me. I really do want to hear because I desperately want to improve and for us to get better."

Kevin

Yeah, and that leaves us perfectly into our fifth act of courage and that's the courage to learn and to grow. And so like you just said, we're open to confrontation because you and I both share a value of always learning and always growing, being open to new ways of seeing things, new perspectives. We want to know those hard truths so that we can improve all of the ways of being in the world. Have you always been the kind of person courageous enough to always want to learn and grow?

Kathy

No, I'm not a risky person. I don't like change. I don't like risks. I don't like things changing, no. And I think that's surprising for people who see the outer view of me, because they're like, "You're always changing. You're always pivoting." And I'm like, yes, but I had to, again, step into that. And for me, it is faith. That's the core of it, that if I feel like it's a faith move, then I can step into learning and growing, because I know that my faith is empowering me and those around me.

Kevin

Yeah. It's so interesting to hear you say that you're not the kind of person that likes change and risk. I know that to be true about you, but I also see it as somebody that does want to always learn and always wants to grow and is always taking in new information, new perspectives and so I wonder if you could say a little bit more about how you wrestle with that tension in your own life.

Kathy

Yeah, I was gonna say that just like we talked in our last podcast about fear and courage existing in the same moment -- Is this the same, right? It's okay to not like risks. It's okay to not like change but know that all of the change and the growth and dreaming is necessary to move us forward to higher versions of ourselves, our callings our service and so if you're not wanting to do that. That's okay. I don't think I want to do it either. I would rather just stay home all day and watch my favorite Netflix shows and not take risks and not move forward. Yeah, like we all -- I want everyone to understand. like even people like us that you all see that are doing that, I personally, it's not my favorite. But again, it's about in the end you have to determine what kind of life do you want for yourself? If it's a life of stagnation or a life of growth and a life of growth involves work, investment, constant sowing and discipline. So whatever life you want, you know, if you want to live a courageous life, you have to put the work into it. So that's just the bottom line. You don't have to like it. I don't necessarily like it all the time, but I know that it's necessary. That's where the tension exists.

Kevin

So what's number six? What's the sixth act of courage?

Kathy

So you already mentioned this one, but this is one that's I think is really interesting. Staub says that the sixth act of courage -- courage is the ability to be vulnerable with others and living the truth of your story and also asking for help, being able to ask for help. You shared a little bit earlier about the vulnerable piece. What about you?

Kevin

Yeah, I love the correlation between living your truth but also asking for help. I have learned over the years that vulnerability comes naturally to those who have had a lot of hardship and challenges in their life. And so that pain is very present to me in all of my experiences, even when I'm having my most joyous moments, that sadness is lingering right there. When I'm sitting with people in their pain, I'm feeling my own resonance with that pain that they've had because of my own history of pain and loss. And so I think vulnerability is that ability to tap into my own experiences of pain and express some compassion for people who are experiencing that themselves. But true vulnerability is not suspended on its own.

Kevin

And so true vulnerability is coupled with good systems of support. When I'm just vulnerable, I'm just feeling pain and feeling the person's pain that I'm with. But the ability to show up courageously and to be vulnerable with somebody is recognizing that, yes, I do have my pain, but I'm also walking down a pathway of healing. And because I know that healing from that pain is possible, I can convey that to the person that I'm with. So vulnerability is not just a feeling. The courage of vulnerability is asking for help and having systems of support in place to support my pain so that I can support others who are in pain as well.

Kathy

It's interesting that you're talking about vulnerability isn't a feeling, it's an action because that leads us to the seventh act of courage, which is the courage to act. In the end, courage is not a word, it's not a feeling, it's not a label, it's an action. So if you have practiced the ability to step up and follow through in your life, then this is what he says: the seventh act of courage is the courage to act.

Kevin

And I love how each of the acts of courage build on one another and lead to action themselves. When we think about courageous people and how they're brave enough to make change in their lives, to take those leaps of faith, we can see it's not just one isolated decision, it's a series of decisions, a series of acts, if you will, that lead to even more action in their life.

Kathy

Yes, I love that he's built this bridge of courage for us in these seven acts, and they're so practical. I just have loved learning about this. And to sum up basically what we've done today, one of the quotes he says, he teaches, "small daily acts of courage can develop the cardiovascular system of your soul". Small daily acts of courage can develop the cardiovascular system of your soul. So I wonder today, how is your soul doing with regards to courage? We thought we would help you figure out your courage quotient today.

Kathy

We're going to review the seven acts. And what I would like you to do now, if you'd like to join us, you would grab a piece of paper. I'll let you do that. While you're grabbing your piece of paper, you want to number from one to seven. The one to seven is going to represent the seven daily acts of courage that we just talked about. So you're numbering your paper one to seven and then here's what we're going to do. When we talk about each act, I want you to think about on a scale of one to seven, one being the weakest, seven being the strongest, you're going to rate yourself to find your courage quotient.

Kevin

Number one, do you have vision, goals, and dreams? Then you may have the first act of courage, the courage to dream and to express it.

Kathy

So go ahead and rate yourself on the courage to dream.

Kevin

Number two, do you have the ability to see truth and not have blinders on? Then you may have the second act of courage, the courage to see reality.

Kathy

Rate yourself from one to seven on the ability to see truth.

Kevin

Number three, do you have the ability to speak up, speak truth to power and confront? Perhaps you have the third act of courage, the courage to confront.

Kathy

What's your score on the courage to confront? Write it down.

Kevin

Number four, maybe you are able to take critique and constructive criticism well. Then you may have the fourth act of courage, the courage to be confronted.

Kathy

Rate yourself on how well you can be confronted.

Kevin

Number five, are you able to step into the unknown and take risks? Then maybe you're able to exercise the fifth act of courage, the courage to learn and grow.

Kathy

How do you score on stepping into the unknown and taking risks?

Kevin

Number six, perhaps you have the ability to be vulnerable with others, tell the truth of your story, and also ask for help. This exercise is the sixth act of courage, the courage to be vulnerable.

Kathy

Rate your vulnerability score now.

Kevin

And number seven, maybe you have practiced the ability to step up and follow through. Then you are exercising the seventh act of courage, the courage to act.

Kathy

Rate your score for the seventh act of courage, the courage to act. So good job, everyone. What's your overall courage quotient? As you score yourself, which act of courage came easiest for you? And which one do you need some work on this week? Thanks so much for joining us for another episode of "Coping" and whatever you may be coping with, blessings to you.