Some Work, All Play podcast

#David Roche and Megan Roche #David Roche #Megan Roche #Running #Sports #Endurance Sports

46:39

“If we march into that village and we start trying to persecute people for using poison, something that's very illegal, nobody's going to talk to us. We're not going to find out where the poison came from. We're not going to be able to shut anything down. We should take the approach that people are using poison because they're desperate, because they see no other alternative.” – Andrew Stein Andrew Stein is a wildlife ecologist who spent the past 25 years studying human carnivore conflict from African wild dogs and lions in Kenya and Botswana to leopards and hyenas in Namibia. His work has long focused on finding ways for people and predators to coexist. He is the founder of CLAWS , an organization based in Botswana that's working at the intersection of cutting-edge wildlife research and community driven conservation. Since its start in 2014 and official launch as an NGO in 2020, CLAWS has been pioneering science-based, tech-forward strategies to reduce conflict between people and carnivores. By collaborating closely with local communities, especially traditional cattle herders, CLAWS supports both species conservation and rural livelihoods—making coexistence not just possible, but sustainable.…

Some Work, All Play

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Five to ten topics, sometimes about running, with lots of love and enthusiasm and science. We dig deep into training, races, studies, pop culture, and much more! With Megan Roche, M.D. and David Roche!

259 episodes

Some Work, All Play

190 subscribers

updated 2 days ago

Series home•Feed

259 episodes

#David Roche and Megan Roche #David Roche #Megan Roche #Running #Sports #Endurance Sports

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1
255. The Shocking Shoe Study That Changes Everything, Boston Marathon Reactions, Creatine for Endurance, and Resting Heart Rate! 1:43:46

2 days ago1:43:46

1:43:46

Our minds were blown by the Boston Marathon right before recording this great episode! The main topic was a new study on the Puma R3 super-shoe, conducted by a top researcher. It showed a shocking 3% improvement in running economy relative to the previous generation of super-shoes, with a universally positive response among study participants. We discuss the evolution of the tech, how it was made with the help of optimization algorithms, and what might come next. Running may never be the same, and we don't think people have realized it yet. We also had some instant reactions to the Boston Marathon! That included Jess McClain running a 2:22 for top American while working a busy job and training with lower volume. We break down some of her training! And this one was full of amazing topics! Other topics: Boston Marathon thoughts, how carbs are changing the dynamics of road marathons, nose strips, the awesome Coffee Club podcast, an incredible article in Outside Mag by Devin Kelly, Strava's acquisition of AI coaching app Runna, a hilarious post-exercise cooling study, a quick-hitter news rundown, fatigue resistance efforts, how time on feet in your job may change training, resting heart rate variation among people, downhill form, and creatine for endurance athletes. This one was so fun! Thank you so much for being here. Let's go girls, -Megan and David Click "Claim Reward" for free credit at The Feed here: thefeed.com/swap Get a "Women Can" tank: https://womencanshop.myshopify.com/ Read Devin Kelly's Outside Mag article: https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear/run/david-roche/ Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP") For weekly bonus podcasts, articles, and videos: patreon.com/swap…

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254. How Heat Training is Changing the Game, Protein Needs for Endurance, VO2 Max Numbers, Workout Success v. "Failure," and What Comes After Disaster! 1:40:10

9 days ago1:40:10

1:40:10

We put sensors in all the right places before this HOT episode! The main discussion was on the emerging science of heat training, centered around a 2025 study that showed 3 x weekly sessions could sustain hematological adaptations from an altitude camp. Heat training is no longer just about being ready for hot weather. It's about helping our blood be full of oxygen, powering performance in all conditions. We try to take a "no secrets" approach to bring you onto the front lines of The Heat Revolution. And this one was full of amazing topics! Other topics: Megan's review of a harness that helps with running form, David's review of the Core 2 heat sensor, heat training guidelines that the sensor illuminated, a follow-up on mitochondria protein, protein needs for different workouts, protein powders we like, heat suit training and what it tells us about physiology, whether it's beneficial to know VO2 max numbers, what hardship teaches us, how we try to hold onto those lessons, the best distance to race in a partner v. partner showdown, bathroom breaks in races, and lots more! Thank you so much for being here! HUZZAH! May your thermometers be warm and lubricated, -David and Megan Click "Claim Reward" for free credit at The Feed here: thefeed.com/swap Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP") For weekly bonus podcasts, articles, and videos: patreon.com/swap…

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253. New Science on Protein Needs, Unbreakable 2, VO2 Max Estimates, Carb Loads, Torpedo Bats, and Cross Training Intensity! 1:38:45

16 days ago1:38:45

1:38:45

We put on our finest white spandex for this amazing episode! The main topic was a new review study on protein needs for endurance athletes. The authors used a cool method of isotope labeling to argue that endurance athletes need more protein than traditional recommendations. The nutrition revolution is not just about carbs! And this one was full of great topics! Other topics: the announcement of an Unbreakable 2 documentary heading into Western States, Kilian Jornet's sustained dominance since the first Unbreakable was filmed, the 1-year anniversary of the bike crash, Tailwind High-Carb, our questions about protein recommendations, increased power and weight in professional cycling, torpedo bats dominating the conversation in baseball, mile times of the Houston basketball team, VO2 max estimates from your watch across different sports, nutrition on race week, the "yips" in running, balancing intensity with cross training, maintaining confidence when changing jobs, overdressed walking for heat training, and balancing training with studying for the bar exam. Thank you so much for being here in the year since the accident. Showing up each week has been a backbone of our lives, and we appreciate you so much. Florence and the Machine can play us out: "Is this how it is? Is this how it's always been? To exist in the face of suffering and death And somehow, still keep singing." We love you all! Huzzah! -David and Megan Click "Claim Reward" for free credit at The Feed here: thefeed.com/swap Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP") For weekly bonus podcasts, articles, and videos: patreon.com/swap…

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252. How Running May Impact The Brain, Plus Q+A on Body Image, Heat Suits, Sweat Testing, and Nose Breathing! 1:28:32

23 days ago1:28:32

1:28:32

We pondered the genetics of smelling ants before this great episode! The main topic was a new study that found the brain may use myelin lipids for fuel during low glucose conditions like marathons. This could have massive implications for how we think about fueling and fatigue resistance, including for cognitive function. Our big theory: fueling is just as much about nourishing and protecting the brain as it is the legs. And this one was full of amazing topics! Other topics: the resurrection of the green shorts, “tension” training via uphill biking and running, heat suit training, genetic data, why post-exercise ketones may be most beneficial after longer efforts, the wild connections between heat response and evolution, body image and clothing choices, heart rate after layoffs, racing athletes we coach, dealing with break-ups, the art of sweat testing, and our frustration with nose-breathing recommendations. May your shorts be green and long, -Megan and David Click "Claim Reward" for free credit at The Feed here: thefeed.com/swap Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP") For weekly bonus podcasts, articles, and videos: patreon.com/swap…

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251. Big Alta 50k and The Story Athletes Rarely Tell, Plus Q+A on Kilian to Western States, Bike v. Treadmill, and Sauna v. Hot Tub! 1:43:11

4 weeks ago1:43:11

1:43:11

We took off our armor for this incredible episode! The main discussion might have been one of our most important (and fun) ever: the Big Alta 50k DNF, failure, and what it truly means to go for it. David raced Big Alta because it was somewhere that he couldn't hide. We needed to gather data about what happened at the very edge of human capabilities. And when you F around...sometimes you find out. We hope that you feel a connection to your big scary dreams. Thank you for giving us the courage to dream bigger! And this one was full of great topics! Other topics: racing lessons from Big Alta, why ankles are annoying, guys v. dudes, running your own race, Jim Walmsley dominates at Chianti, Kilian is going to Western States, sauna v. hot tub, going from 0 to 1 to 2 kids, running groups, bike v. treadmill, core work, life "balance" for people with big goals, long-term training builds, and lots more. This episode gives you a raw window into the true story that athletes rarely tell. We all fail. Life really unfolds in what happens next. We love you all! HUZZAH! -David and Megan Click "Claim Reward" for free credit at The Feed here: thefeed.com/swap Use code "SWAP" for a free gift with a Kickr Run Treadmill: https://www.wahoofitness.com/devices/running/treadmills/kickr-run-buy Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP") For weekly bonus podcasts, articles, and videos: patreon.com/swap Check out the SWAP video series: https://youtu.be/9JoQJIq5fpw?si=xc7hCZJ65vNxUwrD…

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250. The Mystery of Fatigue Resistance, Race Week Feelings, Episode 250 Reflections, Outside Mag Revolt, and Fun Sponsorship News! 1:24:44

5 weeks ago1:24:44

1:24:44

We celebrated the 250th recording for this great episode! The main topic was a new study on fatigue resistance. How do you actually improve performance after multiple hours of work? It’s the greatest mystery of endurance, and whoever solves it will have a big advantage. We think that we have some answers for training, fueling, and the nervous system. And this episode was jam-packed with tons of amazing topics and questions! Other topics: race week reflections before the Big Alta 50k, confidence, showing up authentically for a serious episode 250 discussion, positivity and love in a complex world, fatigue resistance training, OnlyFans sponsors Sabrina Stanley, Nike sponsors Riley Brady, Outside Mag’s revolt, and more. This one got deep and personal, like we also get with our treadmill. Thank you so much for your support over 250 episodes. Let’s do another 250! We love you all. HUZZAH! -David and Megan Click "Claim Reward" for $80 at The Feed here: thefeed.com/swap Use code "SWAP" for a free gift with a Kickr Run Treadmill: https://www.wahoofitness.com/devices/running/treadmills/kickr-run-buy Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP") For weekly bonus podcasts, articles, and videos: patreon.com/swap Check out the SWAP video series: https://youtu.be/9JoQJIq5fpw?si=xc7hCZJ65vNxUwrD…

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249. Heavy Lifting and Fatigue Resistance, Carbs After Exercise, Cramp Prevention, Cadence, and Health in Training! 1:42:50

6 weeks ago1:42:50

1:42:50

We lifted some styrofoam plates painted like metal before this great episode! The main topic was a new study showing improved fatigue resistance for athletes doing heavy lifting twice per week. Yes... we regret to inform you that we think you should probably have a squat rack nearby. Prepare your butts. We also answered a question on carb intake after exercise, framed around a pro triathlete recently announcing that they had high hemoglobin A1C. We talk about some of the complications of that particular story, and also how high-carb fueling during training may change fueling approaches overall. This episode is not sponsored by Country Time Lemonade, but the Country Time people need to call our people. And there were so many other great topics! Other topics: our first date run in 6 months, Jim Walmsley's dominant 50k, an offer code for the Wahoo Run Treadmill, grunting during training, timing nutrition intake, creating supportive environments, why health is the missing link in many training approaches, fitness and speed offsets, watch data, cadence, and the main thing to look for if you suffer from cramps. This episode is a Public Service Announcement for medicated creams. Medicated Creams: be careful about what you put in your mouth. We love you all! HUZZAH! -David and Megan Click "Claim Reward" for $80 at The Feed here: thefeed.com/swap Use code "SWAP" for a free gift with a Kickr Run Treadmill: https://www.wahoofitness.com/devices/running/treadmills/kickr-run-buy Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP") For weekly bonus podcasts, articles, and videos (plus hat purchases): patreon.com/swap Check out the SWAP video series: https://youtu.be/G_o4ZR1vwXQ?si=VRdyfQtzh-K4LpMV…

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248. Zone 2 and Why It Matters, Heat Training Questions, Pre-Workout Carbs, and Trail Supershoe Follow-Up! 1:34:46

7 weeks ago1:34:46

1:34:46

We brought some very sore legs into this great episode! The main topic was a new study on "Zone 2 Training," which gathered a panel of experts to review what Zone 2 means and why it matters. Our theory is that Zone 2 training is interacting with high-carb fueling to drive some of the performance revolution! We also talked about a new study on heat training. It shows that heat-induced adaptations and fitness improvements seem to mimic one another, but may come from different sources. Thus, stacking them could lead to outsized benefits! And get a big plate because there was a buffet of great topics! Other topics: leg soreness from downhill running, a follow-up study on trail supershoes, whether athletes without supershoes will be at a disadvantage on trails, weird heart rate zones, weird blood lactate curves, how athletes can vary from population averages, how we try to embrace pressure, pre-workout carbs, going for it at Western States, uphill treadmill workouts, feel v. metrics in harder workouts, joy in dark forests, and peeing in races. The hottest soundtrack in the club is going to be made up of the whale songs on this episode. Drop it like it's waaoaoooooooooooaoaoo. We love you all! HUZZAH! -David and Megan Click "Claim Reward" for $80 at The Feed here: thefeed.com/swap Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP") For weekly bonus podcasts, articles, and videos (plus hat purchases): patreon.com/swap Check out the SWAP video series: https://youtu.be/G_o4ZR1vwXQ?si=VRdyfQtzh-K4LpMV…

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247. High-Carb and Health, Trail Supershoe Study, Racing Frequency, Pros and Cons of Stretching, and Building Toughness! 1:40:18

8 weeks ago1:40:18

1:40:18

We put on some supershoes for an extra boost for this great episode! A main topic was a question we get a lot: whether high-carb fueling during training is healthy in a broader sense. We not only think it's healthy, we think that the question is best asked another way: how much healthier is fueling your training than the alternative of underfueling? It's true that you probably don't want to be slurping a gel at 3 PM for a snack. But around training, try to fuel the work you're doing. The big science topic was a new study on trail shoes with carbon plates, which theorizes that they won't be helpful for trail runners. We use the study to talk about the risks of broad conclusions from narrow protocols. It's possible that carbon-plated shoes won't take over trail running in the next decade. But we would bet that they do. And this one was full of fun topics! Other topics: the pursuit of greatness, a Western States 100 training update, sharing vulnerability, the shoe disqualification at the US 100 Mile Championships, individual variation in training, frequency of racing, filming training videos, Zone 2 guidelines, the debate around stretching, building mental toughness, and setting boundaries. Like Timothée Chalamet, we're really in pursuit of greatness. Actually, scratch that. We are really in pursuit of not getting sued by energy bar companies. That will make sense soon. We love you all! HUZZAH! Click "Claim Reward" for $80 at The Feed here: thefeed.com/swap Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP") For weekly bonus podcasts, articles, and videos (plus hat purchases): patreon.com/swap Check out the SWAP video series: https://youtu.be/C0w-orswOjE?si=YwIjAssJP2q4dLuj…

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246. “No Secrets” Q+A on World Records, Kilian’s Fasted Workout, Health v. Performance, Wild Probiotics Studies, Applying Heart Rate Zones, Zone 2, and More! 1:35:16

9 weeks ago1:35:16

1:35:16

We bought stock in baking soda before this record-breaking episode! It was a "No Secrets" Q+A, where we lay it all on the line. This one was so fun! The first big question was on the deluge of world records set in the last week. Our theory is that compound gains are being harnessed from nutrition, supplements, and shoes that are changing how athletes can train and adapt across all endurance sports. We break down the shifts in training theory, and predict what comes next. Next was a question about Kilian Jornet’s fasted workout and the theory behind it (and why we don’t recommend it). One fascinating wrinkle is how he took high-dose probiotics before the session. We use that as an excuse to dive into the wild world of probiotics science, where research breakthroughs are happening all the time. Other Q+A topics: health v. performance, roads v. trails, encouraging a partner to fuel more, heart rate zones, visualization, zone 2 training, and more! We love you all! Huzzah! -Megan and David Click "Claim Reward" for $80 at The Feed here: thefeed.com/swap Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP") For weekly bonus podcasts, articles, and videos (plus hat purchases): patreon.com/swap Check out the SWAP video series: https://youtu.be/C0w-orswOjE?si=YwIjAssJP2q4dLuj…

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245. Why No Record is Safe, Strength Training Science, Plus Q+A on Electrolytes, Realism v. Optimism, Mental Toughness, and More! 1:39:45

10 weeks ago1:39:45

1:39:45

Our minds were blown this weekend as more records were annihilated on the trails (at the Black Canyon 100k) and the track (at the Millrose Games)! We talk about The Performance Revolution: what's causing it, what we all can learn, and what comes next. The future is here. And the future is wildly fast! Next up was a new study on strength training for cyclists! We talked about our evolving feelings on strength training, why we encourage athletes to do squats, and why we think single-leg split squats were created by an evil force who hates our glutes. Then it was a lot of fun topics mixed with a "No Secrets" Q+A! Topics: Riley Brady and Tara Dower reset what's possible at the Black Canyon 100k, the tough decision calculus of how hard to go out at ultras in the modern era, inspiring stories from Black Canyon, Salomon hires one of the top metabolic and performance researchers, the influence of sodium bicarbonate in recent performances, optimism v. realism, adding small amounts of training consistently, dealing with low motivation, building mental toughness, electrolyte consumption, weighted vets, and lots more! Quote to remember: "The invention of the ship was also the invention of the shipwreck." Oops we did it again, -David and Megan Click "Claim Reward" for $80 at The Feed here: thefeed.com/swap Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP") For weekly bonus podcasts, articles, and videos (plus hat purchases): patreon.com/swap Check out the SWAP video series: https://youtu.be/FSH68lvEez4?si=musi3fqIxYl2rkbL…

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244. Why Pressure is Good, The Strange Science of Downhills, Plus Q+A on Ketones, Strides, Weekly Mileage, Anxiety, Going All-In, and More! 1:37:39

11 weeks ago1:37:39

1:37:39

We embraced the pressure for 2025 before recording this great episode! A concept we disagree with is that "pressure will break down the mind," referring to saying big, scary goals out loud. Our main idea: pressure is a joyful part of sports. We talk about our long journey to get to this point, and why you should want the ball with time running out, your team down by 2, everyone counting on you. Pressure is fun! The big science topic was one of the strangest parts of human physiology: the repeated bout effect. Just a single, short exposure to steep downhill running causes massive changes in muscle properties and biomechanics on subsequent sessions, even when those sessions are weeks apart. What's happening? We break down the murky science to bring some clarity for what it means for training. Then it was a "No Secrets" Q+A! Topics: high-carb fueling for mental performance, anxiety in athletes, talent and "long patience," weekly mileage, our evolving thoughts on ketones, workout structure, going all-in, terrain and form for strides, cereal choices, heat training and family planning, and a whole bunch of off-the-cuff hot takes. The quote to remember: "talent is long patience." The quote to forget: "those strings are coming out of WHERE?" It'll make sense soon. Pulling strings forever, -Megan and David Click "Claim Reward" for $80 at The Feed here: thefeed.com/swap Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP") For weekly bonus podcasts, articles, and videos (plus hat purchases): patreon.com/swap…

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243. “No Secrets” Q+A on VO2 Max, Very Hard Workouts, Fueling Easy Days, Iron Levels, Confidence, Genetics, and More! 1:37:03

12 weeks ago1:37:03

1:37:03

This episode is one of our all-time favorites, diving into tons of the most important (and most frivolous) topics! As always, it’s in the “no secrets” style, where we lift the curtain and show you what people are thinking at the top end of endurance sports, but might not want to say publicly. Plus, there were so many laughs mixed with serious moments. This one is a JOURNEY. Topics this week: the “Trial by Miles” video, going to dark places in workouts, dealing with brain “panic” when things are hard, fueling in the cycling peloton, how we are evolving on fueling easy days, Stian Angermund’s important story, compassion in drug testing, speed and the “limits” of genetics, going farther than 100 miles, fueling lower intensity efforts, how coaching and confidence interact, why playing a character is sometimes important in developing confidence, VO2 max workouts for athletes of different levels, the culture of alcohol in endurance sports, ferritin and iron levels, blood testing, the iron supplements we are recommending now, and more. It’s so much fun to get to be a small part of your journeys. Today's Listener Corner is wildly beautiful, and it means everything to us to know that the podcast might help you navigate hard moments. Remember Mary Oliver’s urging: “Finally, I saw that worrying had come to nothing / And gave it up. And took my old body / and went out into the morning / and sang.” Singing off-tune, -David and Megan Watch the new video "Let's Shock The World" on David's Western States build: https://youtu.be/FSH68lvEez4?si=rtIAQqJ5rOr49Qlg Click "Claim Reward" for $80 at The Feed here: thefeed.com/swap Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP") For weekly bonus podcasts, articles, and videos (plus hat purchases): patreon.com/swap…

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242. Why Low Carb Doesn’t Work, Plus Q+A on Active Heat Training, Bone Density, Fear Before Big Events, The Trial of Miles, and More! 1:37:13

13 weeks ago1:37:13

1:37:13

This episode was so fun, and it wasn’t just the cinnamon rolls we used for carb research. The main topic was a new study that took a cool design and extended the conclusions beyond their reach, theorizing that athletes should reconsider high-carb approaches for peak performance. We outline where we think the conclusions missed the mark. It makes us uncomfortable to disagree in this way, but we think it’s important for the health and performance of all athletes. Next, we dove back into our comfort zone with a “No Secrets” Q+A on the best topics! Other topics: the Road To Western States video series getting a green-light for a full season, Megan’s first bike workout back, music during runs and races, how to structure the Trial of Miles, fear before big events, monitoring and improving bone density, and our theories on heat training! And the Pain Cave Party playlist is here to give you some motivation for your winter training! Listen, and remember the wise words: “You know, technically / I'm not even really supposed to be here right now / So F it / Might as well make the most of it.” We love you all! HUZZAH! Trying to make the most of it, -Megan and David Watch the new video "Let's Shock The World" on David's Western States build: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vpHk6Qoh_g Listen to the Pain Cave Party Playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/59OkJ1rJv5z7N1hbGqrmw9?si=qYzGe9VFRB-uxPusL5tk-A Click "Claim Reward" for $80 at The Feed here: thefeed.com/swap Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP") For weekly bonus podcasts, articles, and videos (plus hat purchases): patreon.com/swap…

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241. Trail Performance OF THE YEAR?! Plus Q+A on Training Volume, Heat Training, Recovery Days, Bicarb Dose, Fitness Apps, and More! 1:32:56

14 weeks ago1:32:56