Storytelling For Sales podcast

#Business #Businessdevelopment #Negotiation #Objectionhandling #Sales #Salestraining #Storytelling #Ed Bilat #MBA #Entrepreneur #Close #Storysellers

30:21

Hitting plateaus is a common milestone in business, but there’s a difference between stability and a rut. In the last installment of this season, we’ll dive into the ways small business owners push beyond plateaus and find new ways to achieve revenue growth. Jannese and Austin wrap up their time in Nashville, Tennessee with a wonderful visit to N.B. Goods to speak with owner Camille Alston . Camille details the times where she hit a wall with profits, the strategies she implemented to increase revenue, what worked, what didn’t, and the important lessons she learned in the process. You won’t want to miss this informative final chapter! Learn more about how QuickBooks can help you grow your business: QuickBooks.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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"Storytelling for Sales" is a podcast dedicated to igniting your sales performance and growing your business. Every week we will interview Sales and Leadership experts in their field who are doing incredible work. Each guest will share practical advice for making sales more human through the art and science of Storytelling. Upcoming episodes will feature guests discussing topics such as Sales, Storytelling Techniques, Negotiation, Sales Training, Sales Leadership, Go to Market Strategies, Objection Handling Tips and more. Sponsored by storytellingsales.com and Hosted by Top Ranked Storytelling Sales Master Ed Bilat.

23 episodes

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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updated 4 years ago

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23 episodes

#Business #Businessdevelopment #Negotiation #Objectionhandling #Sales #Salestraining #Storytelling #Ed Bilat #MBA #Entrepreneur #Close #Storysellers

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Storytelling for Sales Podcast

1
e022- STORYTELLING FOR SALES CONFIDENCE | Ed Bilat with Julien Leblanc, Global Speaker, Trainer, Coach and Serial Entrepreneur 30:16

4 years ago30:16

30:16

Julien Leblanc joins us on today’s episode of the Storytelling for Sales Podcast to share his incredible journey from a tennis player to a world-class leader in many areas. He shares a lot of gems in this episode including how he uses storytelling with his unique strategy of “hook ‘em, engage ‘em and call ‘em to action.” Julien is a very successful serial entrepreneur who has founded several companies and now largely devotes his time to learning and teaching and injecting confidence across the globe. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: Julien’s journey to entrepreneurship The practical application of confidence techniques Virtual selling and best practices The rise of the attention economy SHOW NOTES [00:22] Introduction to this episode [00:45] Ed’s first encounter with Julien [02:40] Two business success stories that inspired him [05:52] How he got into the sales world [08:37] Early days challenges with sales [10:02] Current mistakes that salespeople make [11:41] How can you tell a world-class salesperson [12:20] How he picks his industries/ business partners [13:22] The values that drive his company [15:00] Stories that excite his clients [16:30] Virtual selling and the best practices [21:22] The top 3 questions to ask prospects [24:34] The attention economy [25:45] The art of storytelling [28:15] Contact info Connect with Julien and find out more about him on Linkedin and his website Find out more about his company, blueprint North America here…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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e021- CLOSING IN A VIRTUAL WORLD | Ed Bilat with James Muir, bestselling author, Vice President Sales at Essential Hub and CEO of Best Practice International 33:13

4 years ago33:13

33:13

James Muir is the founder and CEO of Best Practice International and the bestselling author of the #1 book on closing sales – The Perfect Close. James is a 30-year veteran of sales having served in every role – from individual contributor to executive VP. His mission – to make the complex simple. James has extensive background in healthcare where he has sold-to and spoken for the largest names in technology and healthcare including HCA, Tenet, Catholic Healthcare, Banner, Dell, IBM and others. James is passionate, enthusiastic and fun. He likes to have fun while he works. Not only is James a lifelong student of sales, but he’s also an accomplished guitarist, organic chemistry fan and fitness buff. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: Mistakes salespeople make in the virtual selling How to correct misconceptions about sales What the “ Ideal Advance” is and why you need it What is the “Perfect Close” for the virtual world The noble art of storytelling and selling SHOW NOTES [00:28] Introduction [03:24] Business success stories that inspire him [03:32] “The story of Edwin C. Barnes” [06:30] How James juggles through his roles [07:33] How he got drafted into sales [10:14] Mistakes salespeople make in the virtual selling [13:20] The Sales Call objective [13:53] How do you close business in a virtual world? [14:38] The best closing approach according to scientific research [15:16] The “ Ideal” advance [24:12] How does storytelling come to play is his sales technique [25:01] Misconceptions about sales [28:35] “Selling is an act of service” [30:30] Challenges facing today’s sales leaders [31:30] Contact info and book details You can connect with James and get his book via his website…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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e020- STORYTELLING, SELLING ONLINE AND BECOMING A PROLIFIC ENTREPRENEUR| Ed Bilat with Bruce Linton, Maddie Pimentel And Russell Brunson 39:22

4 years ago39:22

39:22

It’s another unique episode of the Storytelling for Sales Podcast. In this episode, we have combined some of the best answers and advice to questions on ‘becoming obsessed with your dream customers,’ ‘why storytelling is becoming the #1 sales skill to master,’ and ‘how to go from nowhere to a $20 billion powerhouse. This episode features Bruce Linton, Maddie Pimentel and Russell Brunson. Bruce Linton is an entrepreneur who has been at the head of 16 different companies and presently occupies the position of Executive Chairman at Vireo Health International, Inc, Co-Chairman of Martello Technologies Group, Inc., and co-founder of online rental marketplace Ruckify. Maddie Pimentel has been in the Learning & Development field for the past 19 years. She is the Training and Development Manager for North America in SnapAV. Maddie’s role is to enable the sales teams to quickly ramp, begin generating revenue and stay up to date on products, solutions and process updates as well as industry trends. With the purchase of Control4, a publicly-traded company, a few months ago, Maddie is now responsible for sales enablement for the global sales teams. And finally Russell Brunson! Over the past 15 years, Russell has built a following of over a million entrepreneurs, sold hundreds of thousands of copies of his books, popularized the concept of sales funnels, and co-founded a software company called ClickFunnels that helps tens of thousands of entrepreneurs quickly get their message out to the marketplace.Together with his partner Todd Dickerson, Russell launched their sales funnel software in October 2014, and the company grew to $100,000,000 in the first three years. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: Why salespeople should never mention their competition The role of Storytelling in human to human connection The 3 Core Markets /Desires which will stay evergreen The Value of the Public Policy Changes Latest trends in the sales training industry SHOW NOTES [00:22] Introduction to this episode [00:45] Guests’ introduction [03:23] Business success stories that inspire our guests [03:33] “Elon Musk story” [04:14] “Maddie Fathers story” [06:16] How they all got into sales [07:48] How ClickFunnels was launched [09:53] Skills salespeople must have [12:46] Online Traffic Secrets [13:36] Why Relationship Selling is oversold [17:00] Is it difficult to train salespeople? [18:57] Favorite Sales failures [21:55] How online advertising has evolved [24:39] How do you pick your industries? [26:46] How to understand your customers [29:52] The role of public policy changes [30:29] Stories that excite your customers [32:34] How do you find your dream customers? [35:04] Mistakes sales leaders make [36:46] Search-based traffic [37:17] The art of storytelling You can listen to the individual episodes here: Bruce Linton, “From Nowhere to a $20 Billion Powerhouse.” Maddie Pimentel, “Why Storytelling is Becoming the #1 Sales Skill to Master” Russell Brunson, “Becoming Obsessed With Your Dream Customers”…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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e019- WHAT DOES ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, HIGH TECH AND THE MORTGAGE INDUSTRY HAVE IN COMMON? | Ed Bilat with Christy Soukhamneut, Gregg Jorritsma and Eli Fathi - Best of the Season 2 28:05

5 years ago28:05

28:05

In this special episode, we pulled nuggets and discussions from three of our previous episodes with Christy Soukhamneut, Gregg Jorritsma and Eli Fathi Christy Soukhamneut is a 20+ year veteran of the mortgage industry who is dedicated to turning possibility into reality. A gifted strategic thinker, she knows that you must cut through the clutter, clearly articulate the vision, and then rally support at the street level. Everything she does is evaluated against these three bars: Will it make your life easier? Will it help you & your team be more productive? Will it help you grow your business? Gregg Jorritsma has been in leadership roles with some of the most well-known companies in the industry including Citrix, BlackBerry, Bell Mobility, Siebel and Delrina. A passionate advocate for “informed selling” and sales professionalism, Gregg credits his success to having been mentored and coached by some great people that took the time to help him on his journey. Eli Fathi is CEO at MindBridge Ai, developer of the world’s first auditing tool based upon artificial intelligence and machine learning technologies – Ai Auditor – to uncover errors in financial data. Eli has been a technology entrepreneur for over 30 years, having founded or co-founded many successful technology companies. Eli was recognized as the 2018 AI Leader of the Year by the Digital Finance Institute and is a prolific speaker, including talks at the AICPA, Startup Canada Day on the Hill, and TEDx. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: Top mistakes salespeople make all the time The rise and meaning of AI salesperson Why there is no such thing as ‘natural’ salesperson How to help salespeople see something within themselves that is just below the surface What to do to get people to take you seriously SHOW NOTES [00:24] Introduction to this episode [02:22] Welcome [01:55] Business success stories that inspire our guests [02:08] “The story of Febreze” [03:39] “Resilience in the face of adversity” [04:48] “Jim Estill story” [07:58] How they all got into sales [11:04] Their favourite sales failure [13:34] Mistakes salespeople make and how to avoid them [15:06] The mortgage industry... [16:09] Why there is no such thing as ‘natural’ salesperson [16:38] Be wary of multinational companies... [17:38] Sales and rejections [18:03] The rise of Artificial intelligence [19:05] Stories that excite their customers [21:09] AI as a threat to salespeople? [22:36] Challenges facing today’s sales leaders [26:30] The art of storytelling You can listen to the individual episodes here: Christy Soukhamneut, “Logic and data can only take you so far, Story is where we really connect,” Gregg Jorritsma, “Don’t Outsell Your Competitors, Out Question Them,” Eli Fathi, “Why AI won’t Replace (Top) Salespeople.”…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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e018-THE POWER OF NETWORKING | Ed Bilat with Milan Topolovec, President & CEO of TK Financial Group and Inner Orbis 25:18

5 years ago25:18

25:18

Who is Milan Topolovec? Why does he consider himself as a quarterback? How does he build a relationship with his clients and offer more services than he promises? What does your business network mean to you and how do you build one? In this episode, Milan shares his story on launching into the financial industry and how the services he offers are centred on his relationship with his clients. We have discussed why sales reps need people skills, the intrinsic power of networking, prospecting and much more. Milan is the President and CEO of TK Financial Group and Inner Orbis. He graduated from the University of Ottawa after which he was drafted to play for Winnipeg Blue Bombers. He eventually chose a career path in the financial services industry where he is focused on building expertise to exclusively serve business owners and professionals focused on estate planning, business planning and insurance planning. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: How to create the right environment for your clients Knowing when to stop and how to set your priorities How to maintain the right attitude while prospecting Why you need the people skills How to become more than just another sales rep SHOW NOTES [00:24] Introduction to this episode [02:22] Welcome Milan [03:10] Business success stories that inspire him [04:50] How he got started in the financial industry [05:32] Type of clients he loves to serve [06:10] Switching from his football career [07:00] Challenges he faced starting out in sales [08:09] Favorite sales failure [10:05] Knowing when to stop [12:36] Positioning himself as a quarterback [14:10] Why you need people skills [15:10] How to become more than just a sales guy [15:38] His book “ Beyond the Tipping Point” [15:58] The power of networking [17:17] Covid-19 and relationships [19:01] Introducing prospective clients [19:30] Stories that excite his customers [22:03] Offer more than your service demands [22:10] Challenges facing today’s business leaders [23:10] Create the right atmosphere for your clients [23:40] Contact info and book details You can connect with Milan on LinkedIn , Twitter , Instagram . Get a copy of Milan’s book, Beyond the Tipping Point, on Amazon . You can keep up with happenings on TK Financial Group on their website , LinkedIn , Facebook . You can find out more about Inner Orbis on their website , LinkedIn .…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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e017- SELLING IN UNCERTAIN TIMES: THE SECRETS AND STRATEGIES | Ed Bilat with Steve Benson, founder and CEO of Badger Maps 21:04

5 years ago21:04

21:04

Have you been trying to figure out how to navigate selling during this pandemic or you’re struggling with keeping your teams motivated? In this episode, I discussed with Steve how selling has evolved since the beginning of the Covid-19 pandemic and how to pivot, maintain a good relationship with your clients, and sell better. Steve is the founder and CEO of Badger Maps. After receiving his MBA from Stanford, Steve was Google Enterprise’s Top Sales Executive in 2009. In 2012, Steve founded Badger Maps, a software company that helps Field Sales People optimize their routes and schedules to save time and be on time so they can sell more. Steve is also the host of the Outside Sales Talk podcast where he interviews industry experts on their sales tips. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: How to shift strategy during crisis New ways to empower your team members The right ways to prospect How to maintain a good relationship with your clients The strategic importance of training and coaching in this moment of time SHOW NOTES [00:11] Welcome to this Episode [00:58] Shopify success story [02:38] Welcome Steve Benson [03:13] Updates on Sales, technology, and leadership [04:10] Adapting to the new sales culture [05:09] Building Relationships [05:28] Selling on Zoom vs Face-to-Face [05:38] Communicating in the new normal [06:13] Prospecting challenges [07:18] Adjusting your sales message [07:31] The importance of staying empathetic [10:00]The rise of food delivery and health care organizations [11:01] Challenges facing today's sales leaders [12:18] Re-sizing the sales teams [13:00] Hire now [13:26] The importance of training and coaching aspect [16:04] Leading remotely [19:01] The art of storytelling for Steve [19:57] Steve's Contact info You can connect with Steve on LinkedIn , Twitter and Instagram . You can keep up with happenings on Badger Maps on their website , LinkedIn , Instagram and Twitter…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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e016- BECOMING OBSESSED WITH YOUR DREAM CUSTOMERS | Ed Bilat with Russell Brunson , author, serial entrepreneur and the founder of ClickFunnels 49:49

5 years ago49:49

49:49

Over the past 15 years, Russell has built a following of over a million entrepreneurs, sold hundreds of thousands of copies of his books, popularized the concept of sales funnels, and co-founded a software company called ClickFunnels that helps tens of thousands of entrepreneurs quickly get their message out to the marketplace. Together with his partner Todd Dickerson, Russell launched their sales funnel software in October 2014, and the company grew to $100,000,000 in the first three years. ClickFunnels is now the fastest-growing non-venture backed software company in the world. Russell is here to talk about his new book- Traffic Secrets. What I love about this book is how Russell breaks down traffic so that ANYONE can understand how to build a list of raving fans and buyers using very simple and REPEATABLE strategies. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: Who are your Dream Customers? Where are they congregating? The 3 Core Markets /Desires Away from Pain/Toward Pleasure The Searcher and the Scroller SHOW NOTES [00:24] Introduction [01:30] New book: Traffic Secrets [03:10] Welcome Russell [07:54] Attracting customers [09:37] Co-founding a software company [10:02] Publishing his first book [11:34] Writing his second book [13:36] Avengers Infinity War story [14:43] Google Ads challenge [17:15] Email marketing strategy [17:17] Paid ads strategy [20:29] Using funnels [20:41] Strategy behind getting traffic [25:07] Science behind the Direct response marketing [26:20] Identifying your dream customers [27:14] Driving traffic into your funnels [27:28] Growth hacks and techniques [30:06] Getting potential customers to identify with you [32:01] Who is your dream customer? [32:59] Ideal Customer avatar [33:50] Customer-centered company [34:17] Becoming obsessed with your dream customer [38:07] Health, wealth and relationship circles [45:52] How to Create a desire for your product or services [48:24] The pros and cons of interruption ads [49:26] Outro Russell is giving special access to our podcast listeners to order his book "Traffic Secrets" . The book is free. All you gotta do is take care of the shipping.…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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e015- Why Storytelling Is Becoming The #1 Sales Skill To Master | Ed Bilat with Maddie Pimentel , National Sales Training Manager, SnapAV 24:11

5 years ago24:11

24:11

Maddie Pimentel has been in the Learning & Development field for the past 19 years. She joined SnapAV last year as the Training and Development Manager for North America. Maddie’s role is to enable the sales teams to quickly ramp, begin generating revenue and stay up to date on products, solutions and process updates as well as industry trends. With the purchase of Control4, a publicly-traded company, a few months ago, Maddie is now responsible for sales enablement for the global sales teams. Prior to this, she was with NCR Corporation, AT&T, Hearst Media Services and Carrera Commerce in various roles, including Global Sales Enablement, National Training Manager, Inside and Outside Sales Manager as well as Corporate Marketing Manager. Maddie is fluent in Spanish and earned a BA in Communications from Georgia State University. She has also worked as a reporter and interpreter with several media outlets in the Atlanta market. Maddie was born in Havana, Cuba and moved to Atlanta with her family when she was two months old. Her interests include writing, reading, traveling, and photography. If you want your sales team to deliver results, discover the secrets of sales coaching and learn about the hottest trends in the sales training industry, take 20 minutes to learn from this incredibly successful business leader. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: The role of storytelling in human to human connection Top 3 critical skills for salespeople Is it difficult to train salespeople? The value of building companywide Storytelling Library Latest trends in the sales training industry SHOW NOTES [00:22] Introduction [01:42] Welcome Maddie [02:00] Business stories that inspire Maddie [02:51] How her father got started [03:13] Winning business of the year award [05:52] Maddie’s portfolio [06:02] How she got into sales [06:53] Critical skills for salespeople [07:08] Relationship building [07:22] Listening [07:33] Customer’s needs assessment [09:34] Is it difficult to train salespeople? [10:49] Net promoter score [11:16] Maddie’s process of training salespeople [11:40] Current trends in sales training [11:56] Mobile and gamification [14:56] The on-boarding program at Snap AV [17:05] Type of stories that excite customers [19:00] The meaning of Story library [20:20] Challenges facing today’s sales leaders [20:34] Keeping up with the technology [22:00] The Art of storytelling [22:53] Contact info You can reach Maddie at Maddie.pimentel@yahoo.com www.linkedin.com/in/maddiepimentel…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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e014- From nowhere to a $20 Billion Powerhouse| Ed Bilat with Bruce Linton, founder of Canopy Growth Corp., Canada's largest marijuana producer 19:59

5 years ago19:59

19:59

Bruce Linton is an entrepreneur who has been at the head of 16 different companies and presently occupies the position of Executive Chairman at Vireo Health International, Inc, Co-Chairman of Martello Technologies Group, Inc., and co-founder of online rental marketplace Ruckify. During this candid interview, Bruce talks about his successes and his sales failures, helping us appreciate the Growth Mindset, Storytelling and the true meaning of Entrepreneurship. He also talks about how and where he has managed to find extraordinary opportunities and what to look for. If you want your sales and business to grow, take 20 minutes to learn from this incredibly successful business leader. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: Why Relationship Selling is oversold How Bruce picks his ventures Why salespeople should never mention their competition The Value of the public policy changes How to pitch investors using Storytelling techniques SHOW NOTES [00:21] Intro [01:45] Welcome [02:11] Business stories that inspire Bruce [03:10] Early years: Carlton University Student Association [03:18] Canopy Growth Corporation [03:34] How he became a serial entrepreneur [04:46] Get fired for your own ideas [06:00] You are selling all the time [06:52] Common Mistakes salespeople make [07:00] Why Relationship selling is oversold [08:36] Do's and Dont's of sales pitching [09:10] Why you should never slam your competition [10:09] How Bruce picks industries to invest [11:14] The role of Public policy changes [12:45] Stories that excite Bruce's investors [13:09] Advice for using storytelling techniques [14:38] Challenges facing today’s sales leaders [15:50] The Art of Storytelling [17:28] Contact info…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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e013- " Why AI Won't Replace (Top) Salespeople? "| Ed Bilat with Eli Fathi, CEO of MindBridge- 2018 AI Leader of Year 28:27

6 years ago28:27

28:27

Eli Fathi is CEO at MindBridge Ai, developer of the world’s first auditing tool based upon artificial intelligence and machine learning technologies – Ai Auditor – to uncover errors in financial data. Eli has been a technology entrepreneur for over 30 years, having founded or co-founded many successful technology companies. Eli was recognized as the 2018 AI Leader of the Year by the Digital Finance Institute and is a prolific speaker, including talks at the AICPA, Startup Canada Day on the Hill, and TEDx. Eli also gives back to the community by mentoring future business leaders and sitting on the boards of various non-profit organizations. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: The rise and the meaning of AI revolution How Eli built his companies from scratch and what you should expect to sacrifice in order to succeed Top mistakes salespeople make all the time The role of Human to Human Connection SHOW NOTES [00:31] Introduction [01:42] Welcome Eli [02:06] Business stories that inspire Eli [02:20] The story of Febreze [04:10] Customer success and assessment [05:00] Market research [07:17] Becoming a Serial entrepreneur [07:30] Building Fluid corporation [08:18] How Eli got into sales [09:30] Challenges he faced earlier on [11:05] Mistakes most salespeople make [12:38] Good relationship with customers? [13:25] Eli's favorite sales failure [15:35] The rise of Artificial intelligence [16:00] AI as a threat to salespeople [18:32] The role of Human to Human connection [19:42] Competition in AI development [22:04] Meaning of Leadership [23:10] Failure rate of new companies [24:20] His mantras [25:47] Challenges facing today’s sales leaders [27:25] Contact info…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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e012- "Transform your sales process from analog to digital"| Ed Bilat with Jamie Shanks, Best Selling Author - SPEAR Selling 24:56

6 years ago24:56

24:56

Jamie Shanks is a world-leading Social Selling expert and author of the book, "Social Selling Mastery - Scaling Up Your Sales And Marketing Machine For The Digital Buyer". A true pioneer in the space of digital sales transformation, Jamie Shanks has trained over 10,000's of sales professionals and leaders all around the world. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: The meaning of Social Selling revolution How Jamie built his firm from a laptop, a stack of business cards and a tank of gas Top 10 Do's and Dont's for Social Selling How to incorporate social media triggers, insights, referrals and competitive intelligence into the daily sales cycle SHOW NOTES [00:15] Introduction [01:26] Business stories that inspire Jamie [01:38] Building his firm from scratch [03:06] How he got into sales [05:31] Business development engine [06:16] Favorite Sales failure [06:30] Commercial real estate Lesson [08:18] The Importance of Social selling [08:40] Business to Business companies [09:14] Triggers, referrals, insight and competitive intelligence [10:48] Why some companies are yet to embrace social selling [11:00] Fear of change [13:15] The Role of LinkedIn [15:49] Do’s and Don’ts [17:32] The emerging power of video in SM space [19:56] The Art of Storytelling [20:08] Building a storyboard [21:26] The STAR process [22:52] About Jamie’s book, Spirit Selling [23:40] Contact info [24:35] Outro SHOW TRANSCRIPT Ed Bilat: Jamie Shanks. Welcome to the show. Jamie Shanks: Thank you so much for having me. Ed Bilat: I'm delighted. Jamie, I’ve been watching your videos from all over the World, exotic places, airports, helicopter, castles. I've been following you for quite some time so it's an honor to have you on the show and congratulations on your new book, Spear Selling. So that's wonderful and would love to hear your story. But before we do this, let me ask you our traditional question, which is, what business success story inspires you and why? Jamie Shanks: The business success story that inspires me is any entrepreneur that has built something from scratch. For me, as somebody who built his company from an idea and a failed consulting practice at that in my first couple years, I am inspired by anyone who is a founder, owner, operator who took a business from zero to millions of dollars. In fact, you know, you can read books about those that have built billions of dollar businesses, I'm less inspired by those that take over businesses more about those that started from scratch. Ed Bilat: Wonderful. Yeah, I watched the video where you described the experience, I believe you were getting married at the same time. Right. And starting the company. So just a total start from nothing. Correct? Jamie Shanks: I mean all I had was a laptop, a stack of business cards and, you know, a tank of gas in my car and that was it. I really didn't understand and it took me years to really understand the financial and operational rigor and acumen necessary to run a professional services company. I had to learn it the hard way. Ed Bilat: Hmm. Wow. That's very interesting. You came to the consulting practice from the sales world, right? So like, you’ve been the director of business development, however, this is different. Right. So how did you even get into sales originally? Jamie Shanks: Well, it was by accident. I didn't want to be a sales professional. So when I was at university, I went to the University of Ottawa. I volunteered at the bank of Montreal, Nesbitt Burns in Canada, Ontario. And then I would spend my time as a volunteer, that gave me a summer job that turned into a full-time job and at the same time finishing my undergrad degree. So what I didn't realize, my dream as a kid was to be a stockbroker. I mean I did job shadow days at the stock brokerage firms. This is all I ever wanted it to be. And then in 2000 when the market collapsed and I was an investment representative, I didn't know that a stockbroker is actually a self-professional that advises on, you know stocks that are out in the market but also advises on stocks that the bank has underwritten and their job is to sell the inventory that the bank owns. Nobody told me this. So what I didn't realize is I was already a sales professional, just, I was like a wolf in sheep's clothing or whatever that saying is. Anyways, I left the bank and went on to do my master's degree and when I came back, the only company that would hire me or the only role that people would hire me for was a sales role because they said, well that's your previous experience. What are you talking about? I'm not a seller. And anyway, so I felt … Ed Bilat: Interesting. So obviously not expecting to be a full-time sales professional. So what was your major challenge earlier on moving into this? Jamie Shanks: I can tell you what my major strength was and then I'll work backward to everything else being the challenge. Ed Bilat: Sounds good. Jamie Shanks: So what I discovered about myself, I've always been a talker. When I was in high school, I owned a landscaping company. I make other people cut the grass and I just went door to door to win customers. So I had a neat skill of making feel people feel comfortable, creating a business opportunity for myself. So my strength, when I started in commercial real estate, it was a hundred percent commission I was really good at booking meetings, creating opportunity. I wasn't as great at the follow-through and actually doing the real estate transaction. I started partnering internally and I would become the business, development engine in a group of corporate real estate brokers. one person would maybe manage the customer, one person would do the real estate transaction and my job was business development. At that time business development was primarily done via telephone and face to face meeting. And so I could cold call the daylights out. I get to burn the phone up with cold calls. I was just strong at this. Ed Bilat: Yeah, the analog way, right. Jamie Shanks: The analog way. So every other skill became my challenge. Ed Bilat: Hmm. Okay. So do you have a favorite sales failure? Like can you give us an example of a failure which was actually a good lesson for you? Jamie Shanks: I have a story that I'll try to shrink down to podcast level, but essentially when I was in commercial real estate, I won a mandate, which means the opportunity to work on a piece of business for a large industrial company that wanted to build a building and the commission from this deal would have been enough to pay off my master's degree and buy me a house. Like it was massive. The long and the short of it is, the day that the landlord and my customer and their investors met to do this deal it turned into an all-out fistfight. And what happened was my customer… Ed Bilat: [laughs] so this is a closing appointment? Jamie Shanks Exactly. And my customer and investors fired me because they said I didn't do the due diligence on who this land low land[sic]. Ed Bilat: Oh no. Jamie Shanks So what I did is I actually googled the investor's name, look them up on Canada 411. I bought the most expensive bottle of Scotch I could afford, drove to this person's house. It's a gated community north of the city and a place called King City. I jumped the fence to their property, ran across the yard, the investor was sitting in his bathrobe smoking a cigar right on his porch and he and I proceeded to have a scotch together talking about rekindling our business partnership. That's when I realized I was willing to do just about anything. Ed Bilat: Unbelievable. Unbelievable. So he was okay to see you show up with a bottle of Scotch? Jamie Shanks: I guess so [laughs] Ed Bilat: Well, that's a very good, interesting story specifically for Storytelling for Sales Podcast. So thank you for sharing this. I know you’re a top expert in social selling and for our listeners, could you describe it? What is social selling? What is everybody talking about? Jamie Shanks: What it really means is whether we as sellers like it or not, our customers are going to learn with or without us. So a customer is going to go on a journey. And when I'd say my customers are primarily business to business companies Ed Bilat: B to B Jamie Shanks: Yeah. So let's say I'm vice president of information technology or a VP of HR is going to look at an initiative and a portion of their learning is going to happen without the sales professional. That means that they'll do online research. They’ll reach out to their social network and ask some questions. And so what a seller needs to do is to map and meet the customer where they are doing their due diligence, which is online and what they're doing is using four principals. They, reusing triggers, referrals, insights and competitive intelligence that can be found using social platforms or also using digital technology to aid in that buyer's process. So on a tactical level or as a real tactical example, one of the things that I as a seller could be doing to acquire customers is I take every existing customer of ours from our database and I map job changes every time somebody in our customer database from a company that we've worked with leaves that company and moves on to an organization we've never done business with that should, you know, create a trigger for my team to start a compelling sales conversation with them. And that is the purpose of what social selling is. You're just using data and new communication mediums to engage the customer in a bold and different way. Ed Bilat. Mmhmm Okay. So what I hear from now, you say that the sales cycle has already started before they talk to salespeople, right, for modern customers. So it could be 50% in, 60% before they dial the number or even start any kind of conversation. And it's the job of the sales professional to get into that sales cycle early and start influencing the process before they even talk for the first time. Is that correct? Jamie Shanks: 100%. That's exactly it. Ed Bilat: Hmm. Okay. And then why some of the companies have not embraced this yet? Like what's stopping everybody going from analog to digital? Jamie Shanks: There would be a few things. One would be, analysis by paralysis or fear of change. So there'd be a group of companies that have been doing it the same way for so long, the idea of altering back current sales motion is just impossible for them to fathom. Option number two is the companies are then, so that's kind of like the status quo. Then the next level would be they want to change, but they're so focused on working in their business, not on their business. Ed Bilat: Hmmm Lovely. I love that. Jamie Shanks: That they, unfortunately, can't pull their head up out of the sand and realize maybe I can work on things today that will dramatically affect me six to 12 months in the future and I am willing to go through learning and development and the hard things about, you know, a transformation. I'm going to do those things now even though I might be doing very well from a business development standpoint, I might be hitting my sales quota yet all indicators today show that we're doing well. That doesn't mean success in the future and great companies recognize that they need to be evolving today for their 2020 here. And that's just the difference. So many companies are so focused on their next 90 days in the quarter that they can't fathom planning beyond that. And it's also because remember the average vice president of sales stays in a company, something like 17 months. That's the average tenure of sales. So that VP of sales isn't really concerned about what it's going to look like a year or two down the road. They're focused a quarter at a time. Ed Bilat: That's right. And then if you want to drive magnificent, fantastic results, you have to change, right? Because what's the true definition of insanity in the medical term? It is continuing to do the same thing and expect different results and this is exactly why is it's such a challenge. So is there any other tools, any particular ways you recommend to doing this for somebody who is just evolving into a successful social selling as a strategy? Jamie Shanks: Well, absolutely. The most prevalent tool to start with is the tool of Linkedin. [sic] business to business. And then from there, think of Linkedin as two things. One, the world's largest database, sort of resource or research tool. And the second, a different type of communication platform. And when you think about it in those two contexts, then first start to evaluate how you can acquire more data that is beneficial to you. Strategic data such as, I could go into your social network, Ed, right now and see all the companies that you're connected to. So at the end of the day, think of what we use in the analog world and how you can apply it in the digital world. You think yourself referrals. Referrals are obviously a fantastic business development motion. Great. Where do I acquire referrals? Well, what if I dropped into Ed’s social network and I looked at the 3 to 5 companies that Ed knew the best. Now all of a sudden you're taking a sales to play and you're executing it through a digital medium like LinkedIn. So that's where I would get started. Think of how I would use it as that research tool. And then from an engagement tool, I would think to myself, okay, I want to target a company in Ottawa, Shopify. Well, if I wanted to get a hold of the C level executives at Shopify, instead of me calling my way in, what about if I use a medium like I make a video and I send it to those C level executives through Linkedin, that bypasses the gatekeeper. Again, you're just using the same process you would use in the analog world. You're just digitizing it. Ed Bilat: Yeah, that's very important because you mentioned three things; the trigger selling, referral selling and then insight selling. So in the find extend [sic] correctly, you’re asking, okay, these three things they did exist for centuries in the sales world. Now all you do is you taking them from analog to digital. So is that correct? Jamie Shanks: That's 100% what you're trying to do. In social selling, you're not inventing a whole new sales methodology. What you're doing is refining your existing sales motion. That's ultimately what you're trying to do. Ed Bilat: Yeah. Very cool. So because if we put it like that, that sounds less scary for our listener’s right. Jamie Shanks: Yeah, right. That’s when people get caught up because they think, oh, I’m doing less now becoming a social seller. No, no, you're not abandoning the way you sell. You're just evolving. Ed Bilat: Excellent! That’s excellent advice. So is there any particular do's and don'ts for people who are just evolving into this, for companies, for sales professionals, anything which you've seen through the years when you were leading this transformation? Jamie Shanks: I'll, maybe on some of the don'ts at the individual seller perspective. Don't try this once or for a week and then say to yourself, oh, this doesn't work. It doesn't work. You know, I live in Canada. And that would be like me trying hockey for the very first time for a week and saying, no, you know what? Nobody could ever learn to skate. This is, what do you mean blades on ice? Right? And so the reality is my company alone has trained hundreds of thousands of sellers who have made billions of dollars of sales pipeline around the world. So when somebody says this doesn't work for them, they're just making an excuse for themselves at the corporate level. 51% of success are of the digital sales transformation. Sit with frontline sales managers actually sit with sales leadership. If the sales leaders don't inherently believe this, know how it works, turn these into coachable moments and actually coach towards these in one on ones, then it doesn't really matter what you teach the sellers. You can teach the sellers these skills all they want, but if they're not being held accountable to them, it'll never happen. Ed Bilat: Yeah, that's right. They just wasted the training dollars for nothing. Jamie Shanks: Correct. Ed Bilat: Hmm. Okay. So these were do's and dont's Any particular do’s, like do this? Is there any particular favorite social selling story, the success of social sales story you can share with us? Jamie Shanks: What I would start experimenting with today, not tomorrow is the power of video and 95% of sellers that, I mean are scared out of their mind to start making videos to teach, tailor and take control of their customer conversation. And we'll take it from the book, the Challenger Customer or challenge them. The reality is how do you consume and learn? You Watch Youtube and the difference is that the sellers are, for whatever reason, don't see themselves in the same context. Take a moment, make a video around best practices, what-if scenarios, market trends, get it in the hands of your customers. You're going to humanize yourself in a completely different way. You're going to be able to synthesize all these best practices. Your customers are just going to view you differently. That's where I'd start. Ed Bilat: Okay, so definitely the video and don't be afraid to do the first tryout and then the second, then the third and nobody's watching, right? So you can make as many attempts as you like unless you are satisfied with the end results. I just got back from Cuba and I was filming a few videos and sometimes it takes 10-15 times to rerecord it, but in the end, it does look good. Right? Jamie Shanks: Yeah. I mean I've had a different view on this, so I try to record it only once. Ed Bilat: Only once? Jamie Shanks: Even with mistakes. because if you were on a cold call right now, or if you were in a boardroom or if you were on a discovery call on a conference call, you don't get to do it over again. Ed Bilat: That's right. Jamie Shanks: Just like this podcast, we're just talking, right. And there's no stop and start here. And so if you make videos with that mindset, you realize that the customer actually prefers that authentic nature. Ed Bilat: Okay. So they're all foolish. Jamie Shanks: Exactly. Ed Bilat: Just like from your videos from the airport. I have been watching the one you did in Australia I think. You had people around you, you're moving and you just delivered your message. Jamie Shanks: Yeah. Just deliver the message. Ed Bilat: I thought you probably practiced it is like 20 times. Jamie Shanks: No. Ed Bilat: You can do it from the first tryout. Wow. That’s great. So thank you so much for sharing this. So in terms of the storytelling, the digital storytelling, like what does the art of storytelling mean to you? What do you see in this world? Jamie Shanks: When I think of storytelling, one of the very first things that I try to do is take a step back and build a storyboard. If you've ever seen how a movie script is created or when I wrote two books, actually, for me, what I do is I draw out the scenes or the core parts of the story. I draw them up. I'm a visual learner. And that way I tell the story through those main visuals. And I think what's important as a seller is, storytelling is critical in your engagement communication. But that story needs to have been, you need to back up and ask yourself, number one, what part of the story are they going to trust? What part of the story is valuable to them? What is their call to action? So I like to back up, design and craft what that storyboard is going to look like and a variety of storyboards. So this is the other important thing, is that sellers will design one story, we'll deploy a customer, it won't resonate with the customer, the customer will get back to them. Well, it's like they're out of bullets now. So, why aren't you drawing out three, four, or five storyboarded plays? That way after the first message doesn't resonate, you move on to the next and the next and the next. Ed Bilat: Hmm. Okay. So the classical one is the one where you use the star acronym, right? So S-T-A-R, Situation, Trouble, Action, and Results, right? So you basically describe life as it is, then something happens, right? Oh, that's the trouble. And then what are the actions you took and the end results. So this is sort of the classical ways. So what you are saying is that scenario may not resonate with everybody so you need to have several, correct? Jamie Shanks: Correct. The process that you just described, the star process might work, but the content within that star process, the situation may not have resonated or the result may not be of value to that person. So you might need, if you like the star process, then you just need to devise multiple stories using that process. Ed Bilat: And the more details you put the more believable story is, right? Because on the other side, you know, the customer, they’re trying to evaluate did you just make this up, right? or is this is a real story? Jamie Shanks: Correct. Another point, social proof is really valuable when you have a link that can attach to a video or a blog that's written about it or a podcast. Now all a sudden there's some social proof to that story. Ed Bilat: That's right cause they are looking to validate it. Wow, this’s been wonderful, wonderful discussion. So Jimmy, thank you so much for connecting with us today. So tell us about your book and tell us about the best way to connect with you for our listeners. Jamie Shanks: The book that we published in January is called Spear Selling. Ed Bilat: Spear Selling. Jamie Shanks: So Spear Selling is the ultimate account-based sales guide for modern digital selling. What that really means is when I wrote Social Selling Mastery in 2016 it was about the overarching movement of social selling. But what happened is over the years customers are becoming more and more account-based focused. And so this book is very tactical and provides real sales plays that you can run and your leadership team can coach towards as a modern digital seller. And you can pick it up on Amazon in every format from audibles to Kindle to hardcover to softcover and you can also connect with me on Linkedin @Jamie shanks. Ed Bilat: Wonderful. Wonderful. So in terms of the account-based selling, everything you described the digital selling or the social selling, is that component included in this or is that separate? Jamie Shanks: Nope, it's completely covered inside this. Everything that we teach has a social and digital twist to it. Ed Bilat: That would be really cool to check this out, right? Because if you can see this as one strategy, as one approach, not as separate pieces, I think it would be very, very valuable for our listeners to try this out. So thank you so much for coming to the podcast it's been an absolute pleasure. So I will make sure we include your information. Again, ladies and gentlemen, Jamie shanks. Thank you so much. Jamie Shanks: Thank you so much.…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

1
e011- "Why You Should Give Before You Get "| Ed Bilat with David Sorger, President at Smooth Commerce 28:07

6 years ago28:07

28:07

With a focus on business development, sales and marketing, David is a strategic problem solver who has held several C-level and executive positions in organizations across a number of industries including Food Service, Consumer Packaged Goods, and Technology. David’s experience includes, President/CEO at Kingsmill Foods, partnering with organizations such as, Tim Horton’s, Nestle, Kraft and Second Cup, Chief Strategy Officer at ChannelAssist, leading programs for HP, Rogers and Toshiba, CEO of XMTrade.ca and CEO of OtolaneSoft Corporation, both leading mobile online auction platforms for auto dealers and founding Sorger & Company Inc., a consulting practice with clients including, OTEC Research/GP8 Sportwater, Teaopia (acquired by Starbucks), XELA Enterprises and MTY Group. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: The role of technology in the success of Domino's Pizza How David sold his first business for $100K within one week of graduating from college The deadliest mistake salespeople make 4 business trends shaping our future today SHOW NOTES [00:24] Intro [01:22] Welcome David [01:39] Business success stories that inspire David [01:51] Success of Domino's Pizza [03:28] Leveraging the technology [04:23] Starting his first company [05:58] The meaning of ecosystem [07:27] Talking Instead of listening [08:23] How to engage prospects [10:35] Favourite Sales failure [10:53] Building trust [13:11] Food service, retail, CPG and automotive [14:01] Kingsmill Foods [15:46] Stories that excite David's customers [16:47] Personalization [17:36] Future trends [17:56] Smooth commerce [19:52] Challenges facing today’s sales leaders [20:37] Technology [21:20] Time [22:26] The art of storytelling [26:08] Contact info [27:42] Outro SHOW TRANSCRIPT Ed Bilat: David Sorger, welcome to the show. David Sorger: Thank you, Ed. Ed Bilat: It's a pleasure to have you. I can't wait to catch up on the stories. We had a great meeting back in April. So thank you so much for coming to the show today. But before we start, let me ask you our traditional question, what business success stories inspire you and why? David Sorger: The one that's most relevant to me based on what I'm doing currently would be Domino's success story. Ed Bilat: The pizza place? David Sorger: The pizza place itself and I'll explain to you why. Approximately seven years ago they were on the verge of bankruptcy and they made a very bold and inspiring decision and that decision was to become a technology company first and a pizza company second. And they claimed that they don't have the best pizza. They claim to this day that they don't have the best pizza, but they wanted to make sure that they would appeal to obviously the growing new demographic that wanted the convenience over anything else. And so they shifted completely and became a technology company and made sure that any way you want to order Domino’s, you could order Domino's. And as of last February, they overtook Pizza Hut to become the number one pizza company in the world. So a company that goes from the verge of bankruptcy to the number one pizza company in the world by doing something that no one would have even thought of doing, which is deviated from what they were known for, making pizza, and pivot to being a digital company that actually built technology and pizza was only the vehicle to showcase their technology. That story is extremely inspiring to me. Ed Bilat: Interesting. And you would think pizza is pizza. Better ingredients, better pizza. David Sorger: You would think so. In the days where that was the only factor, I would tend to agree with you. But I think this speaks to how businesses are evolving, how we need to leverage technology or any of the tools that are provided to us in the current state and future state to ensure that we capture the audience that we need to make successful decisions and impact meaningful change. Ed Bilat: Very cool. Very cool. Thank you for sharing this. So let's turn the spotlight back at you. You've been dominating several industries. The food service, retail, CPG, all of it were the technology components and the automotive dealers. So how did you even get into the entrepreneurial/sales world? David Sorger: If I really want to go back to how it all started. I was in university doing a degree in kinesiology and health science and also studying business at the same time. The first thing I decided to do was to open up an actual company that just went around. I would sell to small, medium-sized, even some corporate businesses and go and set up their workstations, the elbow pads, the Gel pad to prevent carpal tunnel syndrome. I would go and set up workstations and give them some small exercises to do some stretches and the proper way to sit. Things of that nature. Ed Bilat: That was at least related to your field of study. Right? David Sorger: It was. But the life lesson comes in this format. About three weeks before I was going to graduate, a gentleman approached me and asked me to buy my business. He said he really liked the concept and at the time he offered me $100,000. Obviously being at that age, I thought I was rich and I couldn't sign up fast enough because I thought he was crazy and out of his mind. A little over a year later, I believe it was 13 months, he sold the business for $1.4 million. Now when I think back about what I could have done differently, given my level of expertise and business acumen at the time, not very much. I mean, if I think back, I think, maybe I should have sold 80% for $80,000, but I had dollar signs in my eyes and I was able to get out of my school debt and I was able to have a little bit of cushioning in my savings account. And so that's what inspired me. That was the beginning of my understanding that I really had to not just have great business ideas, but actually have an ecosystem around me, people that I could engage with to ensure that I could actually have a complete offering and have the knowledge base required to really grow businesses and see where there were additional opportunities. So it really started off the path to what I believe is my entrepreneurial career and I am a serial entrepreneur. Ed Bilat: Absolutely. David Sorger: I've started and sold three different companies to date and obviously working on a couple of additional initiatives right now. So it's not for everyone. Everyone thinks entrepreneurialism is easy. Everyone thinks sales are easy and that anyone can do it. But I truly believe that there is an art and a talent to it. And having to go from making nothing three months in a row to having a great month and making $10,000 or $20,000 or $30,000 or $40,000 or whatever a great month means to you and then going back to making nothing again. It's difficult when you're starting things off, but it allows you to… Ed Bilat: Yeah, absolutely. And as my wife says, “whatever you do, entrepreneurship should be spelled with a T at the end.” So that's true. That's very true. It's not for everybody. So with regards to making the first sale for your new business, is there any particular most common mistakes you have seen that salespeople do? That entrepreneurs do? David Sorger: Yeah. They talk instead of listening. I think that’s the best advice that I could give anyone. you really want to engage whoever you're selling. To lead the conversation initially would be my advice. You have a very short window to be able to understand exactly what kind of day that individual is having. Pitching to even the same person at the same company on a Monday versus a Tuesday versus a Wednesday may be completely different and serve different outcomes based on what kind of day that individual is having. Have they just lost the biggest deal of their life? Have they just been yelled at by their manager or by their president or whoever? You really need to understand and really develop that relationship and provide that value and make that individual feel like there's value in dealing with you before you actually start selling your product. Ed Bilat: Hmm, that's a piece of great advice. How do you get them talking? David Sorger: This is the social element of it. Simple questions. ‘How was your day?’ Maybe being aware of certain body languages and seeing if they've had a difficult day. Asking if everything is okay. I've had sales calls in the early stages of my life once I realized that the person wasn't having necessarily the best day, I stopped selling my product completely and wanted to really engage them in ‘how are you doing?’ ‘what kind of a day are you having?’ ‘Is Everything okay?’ ‘Is there anything I can do to help you?’ If you develop that relationship and that connection right away, then when it is time to talk about your product than the recipient is far more likely to be open to what you have to say and to engage with you on a business level with whatever you're selling at any given time. Ed Bilat: Yeah.I absolutely love this advice. And as Confucius said many years ago, “you have to give first before you want to get something.’’ David Sorger: I couldn't agree with you more. So I think everything… this advice was given to me actually by one of my sales mentors, “if you are offered with an opportunity that you either don't have time for or that is not necessarily in your wheelhouse of what you are or are not capable of doing, then you should always recommend the solution to that individual. Introduce them to someone else, tell them that you're not the right person for this, but you have someone that is the right person for this.” Because in my opinion, what it automatically does is it develops a huge amount of trust and when they call you up and you have the ability to engage, then price never becomes a factor. They will always trust you because you had the wherewithal to understand that you couldn't best serve them with something and so you allow them or introduce them to someone else who could, which takes a lot for anyone to do, to give up revenue, to give a business and to say that there's someone better suited out there for what that particular need is at any given time. Ed Bilat: Very interesting. Very good advice. I'm sure that came from experience, like, do you have a favorite sales failure or sales situation which was a complete disaster, but in the end, it gave you all the great experience you're sharing with us today. David Sorger: Yeah. Well, I can speak to that exact last point. Early in my career, there was a philosophy that I had, which always said yes, if you can't do it, find the people who can do it. And unfortunately, if you take on that philosophy, then it can cause you more problems than it's worth because then you're accountable. You become accountable for this situation. It's not about, you know, you recommending someone and them assuming full accountability. You become accountable. So you're managing projects and you're managing situations that you don't necessarily have the expertise to manage and it ends up getting you in a lot of trouble. You end up missing deadlines, you end up providing a product that isn't ideal or isn't what was agreed upon, and that just ruins your reputation. So you're much better off to just understand what you're best at and surround yourself with that ecosystem like I said, of people that are really good at the things that you're not good at. And so then you have either the capability of creating a solution together and knowing who drives that solution, depending on which part of the business is being discussed at any given time or which part of the project is being discussed at any given time. But yeah, no, it's definitely trying to just, you know, accept any offer that comes, it was the catalyst to me understanding that it goes much further beyond that. Ed Bilat: So would you rather say no more often? David Sorger: I think it's less than saying no, it's more of, this isn't what I do best and I only would ever recommend what I do best, but I have some people in mind that I'm going to call on your behalf because you know, you can trust me and I'm going to recommend someone to you that can help you with this particular situation. Because what that results in is an individual having a conversation saying you need to call David or you need to call Ed because they're going to be completely transparent and upfront with you. They'll let you know if they're the best person for the job and if not, they're going to help you find the best person for the job. You will become a confidant to that individual and they will always give you the business without even questioning the pricing of the things that are in your area of expertise. Always leverage your network to be able to help them with anything that is outside of your expertise. Ed Bilat: Very cool. I love that advice. So thank you for sharing. In terms of the industries that you have picked; the food service, retail, CPG, and the automotive vertical, all of it with the technology component. What was the rationale for picking those? How did you get to those industries specifically? David Sorger: I wish I could give you some if I'm being honest, some really thoughtful and cogent answer. But again, I had a mentor early on in my life that once told me that everyone has a product or a service that they need to sell to an end user. The same business principles apply. And so if you take a step back and really think about that because when I was asked to go into food service by actually the president of Kingsway foods at the time, I said to her, I know nothing about food service. At the time I was building infrastructure, again, not my previous industry. I was at the Granite Club building the personal training and fitness consulting section of the actual club. And I was building that out and we went from 3 trainers to 35 trainers in one year. She watched that happen. And the reason she gave me that advice is that she said, all I want you to do for my business is the exact same thing that you have done for the Granite Club. And I didn't really understand it at first. But then when she said that everyone has a product or service that needs to be sold to an end user, it made me realize that I'd like to give it a shot. A lot of the fundamentals about selling are the same. It's really a widget that you're replacing. Of course, you have to be brought up to speed and understand the points of difference that you're offering versus your competitors. But that applies to every industry. So every single time I came up against, oh well I have to educate myself on X, Y, or Z, I automatically correlated it back to something that I had done before. And I was fortunate enough to grow the company considerably and I became President/CEO of Kingsway foods after my first two years of being there because I took a 60-year-old company that was relatively flat in growth and showed them a tremendous growth. Ed Bilat: Congratulations. David Sorger: Yeah, well for every success story there are war rooms that are associated to them. Ed Bilat: So in all of these verticals what type of stories excite your customers and partners, what have you seen? What drives excitement? David Sorger: Personalization. So you always need to be relatable. So the one thing that I would recommend for anyone is, I'm sure everyone has been to these sales pitches that you know, people talk about. And this especially applies to me now in technology. If I go into a room full of CEO’s, non-tech people and I don't even consider myself a technology person to be quite honest with you. So if I go in and I start talking about different programs, different technology stacks and this and that, and it's not something that they can relate to or understand, typically you'll see a lot of head nodding and then you'll walk out of the meeting thinking you did a great job. No one had any questions that they wanted to ask you. Everyone was looking at you and was smiling and you'll never get another phone call. The reason for that is because no one ever understood what you were pitching to begin with. So you have to personalize your content based on your audience. If you are in an audience full of tech people, then absolutely bring your chief technology officer with you or anyone else and allow them to have a conversation at a technical level. If you're not, then you really have to sell the 50,000-foot level idea and concept. In layman’s terms, to be able to make them understand exactly what they're actually either buying or what they're subscribing to or what they're committing to or engaging with you on. That's imperative. So I think that personalization, knowing your audience, personalizing it to the audience is extremely important. Ed Bilat: Yeah. I'm just looking at the notes after our meeting in Toronto. I asked you a question about future trends and I have two notes here. The first one, everybody wants full customization and the second one is nobody wants to cook anymore. David Sorger: Well, that's through my business today. I'm president of a company called Smooth Commerce. We have a very unique customer engagement platform that you can actually self-export either via mobile or web and the mobile or the building app component that we do. The native Mobile Apps is probably the one that we're seeing the most traction with. Thank you very much, Starbucks. Thank you very much Domino's pizza for that. But even if you take a look at the simple things like how they're building condos in downtown Toronto now, there are no kitchens in your condos anymore. You have a wall. It is literally a wall. And in that wall, it is not set up to prep food or anything. Everyone wants convenience. Everyone is busy. Time is the most valued commodity right now over anything else. So people are willing to pay premiums as long as they're getting the service and the convenience. And really the quality, unfortunately, while it can be a differentiator is, in my opinion, moved down a little bit and convenience has taken over. I mean, we go back to what I told you inspires me about the whole Domino's pizza story. I don't think Domino's is the best pizza personally. There are a lot of great pizza places out there that I believe have better pizza, but they are by far the most convenient. And they make it easy for you and they're constantly reminding you whether it's via Facebook, whether they're telling you they're going to deliver with drones, whether they're telling you to order through your Google home, they're always on top of the latest cutting edge technology to make sure that they're satisfying anyone at any demographic. Right? So whether it's your traditional person that wants to phone in and that doesn't have the technology or whether it's the newest person that's coming through it that wants to order through Google home, they give you the option to do whatever you want. Ed Bilat: That's interesting. My next question, what challenges do you see facing today's sales leaders? Would you say that technology and convenience are becoming more important than the actual product itself or service? David Sorger: Yeah. So that's a great question. I think technology without benefits has a lot of downsides to it. It actually can detract from that personalization, from that relationship building. And a lot of the times in a very competitive world, in any industry, everyone's selling roughly the same product for roughly the same price and really the biggest point of difference end’s up being the relationship that you can generate with whoever you're trying to sell to and technology in some cases has taken a little bit of that a way, you know, the ability to really personalize. No one wants to talk on the phone anymore. Everyone wants to communicate via email. No one wants to meet in person anymore. Everyone wants to communicate via webinars and things of that nature. The idea of people listening to podcasts a decade ago would have been laughable. Now it has become one of the major or definitely one of the ways that at least the younger generation engages with any kind of interest that they have. Right? Technology is a little bit of the challenge. Then the other challenge is just quite honestly, time, everyone is in a rush. Corporations are reducing headcounts and the expectations of what people are to do or to accomplish in a day or what they're accountable for is increasing because of all these efficiencies because of all the competition out there. So I think the combination of those two is probably the biggest challenge that we're going to face moving forward. Ed Bilat: Thank you for sharing this. For our podcast listeners, storytelling is the key theme so we'd like to see how you can use storytelling to keep that human component, which allows you to open up and tell the relevant stories and at the same time create the empathy and hear the client’s needs, right? So like how do you keep a human connection open and use the technology, is it like digital storytelling? Like is that the new wave if the technology component is so important? You’ve been in so many different verticals and been so successful, what does the art of storytelling mean to you? David Sorger: It's exactly what you said actually I did. It's bringing the human element to it. So, you know, I do quite a bit of public speaking. I’m a keynote speaker at a lot of events. When I first started doing it, you would think you would go up there and you would present based on the topic that you were given. I always love being in the spotlight. My wife jokes around, she says, I was born with a siren on my head and a microphone in my hand. But I realized, and it really was disturbing to me that, I'd see people in the audience glazed over, not interested, talking to each other. And I really took that personally and it wasn't until I started sharing personal stories, things that actually happened to me that would somehow relate to the topic that I was actually presenting that I really saw a significant increase in engagement with what I was doing. People want to know about you. If you're the person standing up there on the stage, it’s important to talk about industry statistics or where certain things are heading, but you always have to tie it back to a personal experience. If you can get out of the traditional way of talking to an actual product or an actual situation that you're trying to address or anything else that you've been asked to talk about and you can constantly break off and draw a parallel to something that's happened in your own life to support what you're trying to say in the presentation and you'd do it relatively frequently, you'll keep that audience engaged and I think that's really impactful. You know, you get to talk about some crazy things that might've happened to you at the same time as talking about the topic that you were asked to speak about and tie the two together. It engages people up more. It promotes additional questions. After you've done your presentation, people come up to you, they feel more connected to you, they feel more engaged with you. So it really is about, I think, drawing it back to your own personal experiences because you never want the person in the audience saying, Oh, what does that guy know about what he or she is talking about? Right? They’re just reading from a script or reading from a PowerPoint. So I think bringing in real life events that have either happened to you or friends or anything you can draw from your personal life. That's really the key to storytelling. When you look at even comedians today, your favorite comedians. Comedians are always talking about things that have happened in their own lives. That's how they begin the script. So why wouldn't we as salespeople do the same? Ed Bilat: Yeah, that's a great approach, right? That's what makes you more believable. That's what creates empathy. Because in the end, people want to see people, not, just another blah, blah, blah, like in how many sales presentations you have been through, you just sit there for five minutes and thinking like, why do I have to listen to this for another hour? Like, who is this clown? Like, have you ever sold anything in your life? You just read a couple of books and came to preach. Right? David Sorger: Exactly. It's very obvious to me when you can tell someone is just regurgitating information that they've read versus someone who's telling a personal story as you said, that has a much deeper meaning and connection and then relating it to whatever the topic is. Ed Bilat: Absolutely. That's a piece of wonderful advice. So it's been a wonderful interview. Thank you so much, David. What would be the best way for our listeners to connect with you or learn about the company and learn about the technology components you’re driving so hard in so many verticals? David Sorger: Yeah. The best way would be to go to our website, which is www.smooth.tech or email me directly with any questions, my last name Sorger@smooth.tech. That would be the best way to connect. We are re-doing all the marketing and everything on our website, so for those who want to quickly go on the website now and then come visit us, hopefully, a month from now you'll see a significant change in how we're positioning our product and what we can do to serve the industry and the verticals that we're trying to address. Ed Bilat: Excellent. Excellent. Thank you. We'll make sure to include all the links. I'll include your LinkedIn profile as well. And It’s been an absolutely wonderful experience, particularly from your practical experience because you've lived through this and that's what makes it very valuable. David Sorger: I have lived through it and you know, those who are people’s people will be unbelievable salespeople if that's really the direction that they want to go to this. So much of this is still the human element, like what you said, so much of the opportunity is bringing that human element back, especially in this digital world. If you can be creative even in a digital way to bring that human element back then I think that's the key to a lot of future salespeople success. Ed Bilat: Absolutely. I agree with that point 100%. Thank you so much again for coming to the show. David Sorger: My absolute pleasure and thank you for having me. Ed Bilat: Thank you.…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

1
e010- "I never lose. I either win or I learn."| Ed Bilat with Harsh Sabikhi, Country Manager, GitHub 25:28

6 years ago25:28

25:28

Harsh Sabikhi is the Country Manager for GitHub Canada responsible for growing the Canadian region. Harsh started off as a software engineer writing applications in C, C++, and Java for Texas Instruments. In 2006, he transitioned into technical sales and eventually into software sales. Harsh is passionate about perpetual learning, change, and lean operations. Harsh is a native of Toronto and holds an Electrical Engineering degree from McMaster University. Outside of work Harsh is a new dad and has a 3-month-old boy. He enjoys spending time playing hockey, golf, and baseball. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: Inspiration story of Jack Ma (Alibaba Group) Storytelling techniques deployed at GitHub by Harsh The importance of keeping up the pace of change in the sales world today How competition and cooperation will influence the future of sales. SHOW NOTES [00:08] Introduction [00:36] Welcome Harsh [00:49] Type of business stories that inspire Harsh [00:52] Jack Ma’s story ( Alibaba Group) [01:06] Being a firm believer in positive thinking [01:56] The win or learn Strategy [02:34] Transitioning from Software Engineering to Sales [05:49] Presenting and gathering feedback [06:36] Product knowledge [08:06] Bridging roles (having a cross-functional team) [08:46] How it felt to be the first Canadian sales rep for his company [11:25] Isn’t it hard to coach and mentor cross-functional teams? [12:01] Knowing the profile of your team is a key [12:37] What kind of stories do you tell to gain customer’s trust? [14:50] Customer experience and community [15:25] The future of software development [16:19] Why do some sales teams fail? [17:07] The relationship between the pace of change and commoditization [18:30] Advice for starters and college students [19:24] Challenges facing business owners [21:23] The future of businesses [22:00] The Art of Storytelling SHOW TRANSCRIPT Harsh Sabikhi: 00:00 To me, the art of storytelling is you tie personal experience to the product that you're selling. Automated Voice: 00:12 This is the storytelling for sales podcast, a show about leveraging the power of storytelling to ignite your sales performance and grow your business. Ed Bilat: 00:22 Hi, and welcome back to the storytelling for sales podcast. I'm your host Ed Bilat. Today we have Harsh Sabikhi country manager of GitHub joining us from Toronto, Canada. Harsh Sabikhi, welcome to the show. Harsh Sabikhi: 00:39 Thank you. Ed Bilat: 00:41 Great to have you here, so Harsh, we'd love to hear your story. It's very exciting. But before we jumped in, we'll ask you one of our traditional questions. What type of business success story inspires you and why? Harsh Sabikhi: 00:53 Sure. I would have to say Jack Ma, he had failure after failure, but he never gave up. I can't remember how many times he actually got rejected from jobs and some schools. Personally, I'm a firm believer in positive thinking. Where a positive mindset, leads to great results. However, failure allows us to take a step back and analyze ourselves. The situation and why we failed, this is where combining a positive attitude with learnings from failure comes into play. Jack Ma learned something from each of his failures early on, to now create one of the largest companies in the world. Ed Bilat: 01:34 That's a great example. I think he was... I think he applied them for a fast food restaurant like 20 times and he was the only one rejected, I think. Harsh Sabikhi: 01:47 Exactly but he didn't let that bother him and that's the best thing. Because I think it was Muhammad Ali as well, who followed this strategy before Jack Ma who said, I either win or I learn. Ed Bilat: 02:03 I think you hit the very important point because sometimes we get into this culture of win or lose. Instead of using the word lose, you use the word to learn. This way it's more positive. A great example. Obviously, in our generation, that's it... It's one of the tremendous success stories. Somebody coming out of nowhere and becoming... Building the new brand an exciting brand, which is worldwide accepted. Okay, great. Let's turn the spotlight back at you if we can so a software engineer who went to sales. Now I have to say this, it almost never happens. Cause I remember running a sales team myself. My guys, my sales guys, we were extremely scared of all the engineers and coders. Whenever we would have to go talk to them it was like... I don't understand it, what I'm going to say? What we found out then engineers, they want to talk to sales. They were just scared because they thought we were all crazy, obnoxious people who exist to sell the product, which actually should be selling itself. You crossed that bridge. Tell us about this experience. How did you do it? What did you do it? Take us. Harsh Sabikhi: 03:25 Sure. I did everything you just mentioned and that is spot on, I would say was spot on a long time ago, 1520 years ago, and that's when I was a developer. I would say... I think the personality and because of social media, because of our interactions online, the developers over time have changed as well. The developers are now a lot more what I call business friendly or customer friendly if you will but let's talk about my transition. I have an electrical engineering background. I went to Mac Master and I did an internship with Texas Instruments, in 2001 and then that's when I got into actually writing software for a large organization. I also developed software for that. But so in the early two thousand when I was a software developer up until 2006, I knew I had a passion for building things. Harsh Sabikhi: 04:24 I enjoyed writing software. The joy I took was seeing how my software was being used. It wasn't until when... I say being used, meaning being used by the end customers. It wasn't until my mentors within the engineering organization, the product marketing, the product management organization brought me along on their sales calls or conferences and I actually got feedback firsthand from the customers using the software. That's when I realized there's a bridge right there, that the problem development has had for a very long time is it's been a siloed organization. It still it is. Ed Bilat: 05:09 Yes, you work alone. Harsh Sabikhi: 05:10 It still is in a lot of organizations today, where the developers are completely disconnected from the end stakeholders. They typically have internal stakeholders and those internal stakeholders work with the external stakeholders. It wasn't until I got to leave my desk to meet the clients and customers, and realized, wait a minute. Harsh Sabikhi: 05:30 That's actually pretty, it's fun because you're listening to your customer, you see what they want, and then you turn that into a feature request or an enhancement request or a bug fix on your backlog, and then you go from there. It was at that point where I realize, I'm going to swiftly ...slowly start to transition into more of a product management project manager role to do that. Then from there then I said, okay, well that's great. I realize I love presenting in front of customers. I am not scared of doing that and I love gathering feedback. That's when I realized, what other customer-facing roles can I do? The logical choice was sales. I had the luxury of working for a fortune 80 company in Texas Instruments and I had to start from scratch and I'm not going to lie to you, it was a bit of a step back, if you will, from a career perspective where, being a developer right now, literally you start from the bottom and be a technical sales associate at Texas Instruments. Harsh Sabikhi: 06:32 Then I became a technical sales rep and then go on from there, but it was a jump that I really enjoyed doing because I knew if I didn't do this now, it would be much more difficult later on. Ed Bilat: 06:45 Did the product knowledge and understanding your own code, give you the confidence of talking to clients? Harsh Sabikhi: 06:54 Absolutely, that's exactly right. Because I used to write software, it was called code composers studio was the software that we built. I wrote an application that allowed embedded developers to view what's going on into their associate, the system on a chip. Then later, when I moved into hardware sales at Texas Instruments, I was selling those chips. I knew the software that was going to help them make use of those chips. Ed Bilat: 07:24 Interesting, so it actually helps you, of course, you had to learn new sales techniques and approaches influencing, presenting, closing. This is a new world. However, you already had the background of actually understanding the product. Cause, I don't know how many times I can tell that we'd been sitting in the board room. Right. So on the first day, it's just a sales team presenting, presenting, and then VP of engineering work, same. Then he says, okay, like sales stock is over, let's just talk about the actual product. Then my entire team would go silent because nobody could say anything. We don't understand it and we looked at our technical director and says," Could you please take us in the next two days?" We'll be just sitting there smiling, pretending we understand what they're talking about. Harsh Sabikhi: 08:16 No, and I think that's where... I think where I see that the tide shifting as well, where I think the future is going to be people that can straddle both lines. Of course, we're still going to have roles as a solutions engineer, sales engineer, if you will, a sales rep and then also the engineering team. Those roles don't go away. I think crossing the line and having a knowledge of what everyone does, I think having cross-functional teams is where this whole agile principal also came from. We're understanding what other people are doing in the organization only helps you do your job better. Ed Bilat: 08:54 Interesting. Well, I've noticed that both software and the Github, you were the very first Canadian sales rep and actually a Canadian employee and now you run the entire country. How did it feel to be the very first and what kind of challenges you've had to go through? Harsh Sabikhi: 09:15 It's definitely a lot of risks taking. They know it's... you start when you built from the ground up and Canada's always an afterthought for American startups. They have to build up the business at home first in America, and then, having an international expansion strategy. I'll talk about Robbi. I took over, I was the first person there just a major accounts. I was there for over three years, almost three and a half years. Then from there, going from one person, we grew the team to six people, including me. At Robbi, it was all about, I mentioned agile before having a cross-functional team where we had... I was considered the quarterback and then I had a territory account manager. I had a customer solutions manager. Ed Bilat: 10:09 You had the team right away, right? Harsh Sabikhi: 10:12 Well, not right away. No, Robbi hadn't been built to that, because you got to, you have to build enough business to justify... Ed Bilat: 10:18 Because you build it like eight times within three years, right? Harsh Sabikhi: 10:22 Yes, exactly. We grew the revenue, 8X, and to do that, you need a cross-functional team. It was scary in the beginning because you're essentially starting a greenfield region. You don't... Canadian customers don't really know much about the product. You're not just doing sales, you're doing business development, you're doing a little bit of marketing and it's a fun challenge, but I really enjoyed it because I learned a lot. I learned a lot from Robbi and that's what helped me get to where I'm at Github. Now, with Github I want to be clarified, I'm the country manager known from a sales perspective. I don't obviously have engineering working for me, but from a sales perspective, the same story where it started off. I was the first a sales rep in Canada and now we've expanded to take over the entire country from a sales perspective. It's a very similar challenge and we're doing the same thing. We did a Robbi but get up as much bigger than Robbi. Now we recently got acquired by Microsoft. The level of responsibility if you will, has been magnified just because of the scale. Ed Bilat: 11:36 Now you coach and mentor other people on your team, right? Isn't like a really hard to coach and mentor cross-functional teams with people of different backgrounds? Harsh Sabikhi: 11:49 It is. That's why I have a clear coach world, where I still manage some of our biggest customers only. Then all the other ones, I'll join the calls, I'll work with my team on helping them understand, here are the people we should be prospecting, here's the messaging that might resonate, breaking those messages up into verticals and then also joining the calls when they need me to. The key that I find is understanding, what is the person's background on your team? Are they a self-starter? Do they... Are they more of a task runner based? Meaning you have to give them a laundry list of things to do and they'll go ahead and do it. Or are they more creative thinkers where they come up with customized campaigns to generate new business or come up with creative ways to further expand into accounts. I think getting an understanding of the profile of your team makes the job a little bit easier. Ed Bilat: 12:55 I think you brought an excellent point. In this podcast, we talk about the storytelling, and specific stories we tell to our customers in order to influence, to get the trust to work for them and actually building a relationship and depending on your team, depending on their background, they're going to tell different stories. What type of stories do people tell you and there is the difference between different personalities. What do you see in the field? Harsh Sabikhi: 13:29 Absolutely. Right. So what about depending on the client? I'll share the experience that I use. I can talk a little bit more about what other people do, but I'm a huge fan of from a storytelling perspective. I took Dekker training about four years ago, I think four or five years ago, and it was one of the best training. I highly recommend that for everyone listening. Dekker is all about, presentation styles and skills and they do talk about storytelling in there as well. To me, storytelling is a way to really connect with your audience and customers at a deeper level, you get to take a step back and not even talk about the product you are positioning that's going to help their business needs. But you're taking a step back and really tying what you are going to be talking about. Harsh Sabikhi: 14:22 To emotions and empathy and really get into the human emotions into the sale, so at tying your personal stories to the actual sales itself. A few examples, Github, our platform, we're an online service we're the home of open source software, that's where people go to the open source software. But then we have also the largest organizations in the world that use our service and we are the core, we're the hub of software development. Ed Bilat: 14:52 24 million people using this, right? Harsh Sabikhi: 14:55 We just passed 30 million. We've been going through exponential growth, we just passed 30 million users and with Github, the storytelling we use, I use and a few of my teammates uses customer experience and community. You're not beat up buying Github or you're not signing on to be part of our service just so you can work in a siloed approach. It's about joining the community. It's about the benefits you will get, in getting access to the community, uh, software that's already there. And then getting the benefit of understanding, okay, your customers are utilizing this service to build X, Y, and Z. If you join that community, then you start thinking about adjacent customer experiences. The future of software development is going to be about not just what your product does, but first of all, how is your product (a) different than your competition? (b) How does it fit into what the new narrative of customer experiences? Ed Bilat: 16:03 Their own stories, right? Harsh Sabikhi: 16:06 That's right and also add from a UX perspective and an experience perspective. I hate to say this, but it's a reality. Our lives are pretty much controlled by Facebook, Netflix, Amazons Googles of the world, and they have provided interfaces and services for us to interact with. That's sort of the narrative, if you will, of customer experience, so when we talk about how you can build that by joining and getting the community benefits to build similar customer experiences for your end customers. That's one way we do storytelling. Ed Bilat: 16:43 Interesting. I love that. Why do some of the sales team fail in this space? Where is the disconnect? Harsh Sabikhi: 16:52 Honestly, I really think it's the pace of change and keeping up with the disruptions. Yeah. Because you have a sales strategy, you have a product, it works in sales today and you're crushing your revenue goals. Harsh Sabikhi: 17:10 In a year, that's not going to be the case in a lot of cases. In the past you sold something and you are good for three to five years minimum but now every year you have to constantly earn the trust of your customers. You have to constantly innovate and you have to constantly change and keep up with the disruptions that are coming left, right and center. That's because the pace of change is directly equivalent to the rate of commoditization. The software's becoming a commodity now. People can spin up a new server overnight and start-up business, with pretty much no capital expenditure, very little capital expenditure. I think that's really why [inaudible] because if you don't, not constantly learning and changing and keeping up with that pace of change, you will be left behind. Ed Bilat: 18:03 I love it. I think it's connected exactly where the storytelling experience we just talked before. You need to tell new stories all the time. It cannot be the same story for the next 10 years, because the change is just too fast. Who would think, you know, like Uber is the largest taxi company in the world and they own no cars? Airbnb is in the largest accommodation provider and they own no hotels. Ten years ago, that would be unthinkable even to think that something like that. Facebook, this is the largest media company in the world and they don't write their content. You don't adapt to that. What kind of story you can tell how relevant, you going to be in that space. For the new folks or people who just entering a workplace, college students are there any particular advice you could tell them before they go to the real world? Harsh Sabikhi: 19:11 Always stay up to date and never think that after you leave college or university learning is done. I think constant learning is key and the beauty is with Udemy and Coursera, we're so lucky and fortunate to be living in this world where we're living in because information and learning and education is at our fingertips. There's no reason why you should not be constantly learning and evolving and retooling and retraining yourself for the future. Ed Bilat: 19:46 Perfect. I love that. Let's go to our couple of more questions before we wrap up. It has been great. In terms of challenges ahead of us, we talked about the pace of change anything other you see facing today's business owners, sales leaders, business leaders, what are the challenges ahead of us? Harsh Sabikhi: 20:08 I would say the biggest challenge is because I talked about the customer experience. I talked about how because of growth within your own vertical, you might be hitting a plateau or you might be hitting a point of saturation. You now will have in the future, I think you're going to start to see nontraditional competitors. What I mean by that is... If you have... You're in the banking space and you've got your laundry list of banks, you're competing with... Ed Bilat: 20:38 Traditionally? Harsh Sabikhi: 20:38 In the future. That's right. The traditional banks in the future, traditional banks won't be your disruptor. Not even be the fintech companies. It could be the technology companies or other companies, retail companies that offered their own credit card or other financial products. I think the challenge that we face in the future is companies need to grow and they need to shoot, keep shareholders happy and increase shareholder value, what's going to happen in the future is I truly believe companies are going to start to venture off into areas and businesses that are not, that they weren't necessarily thought of that they would be entering 5 to 10 years ago. Ed Bilat: 21:26 Something like completely different from what they're doing today? Harsh Sabikhi: 21:32 Yeah. Like I mean... Amazon Bank. There's a reason why Amazon can be a bank. Ed Bilat: 21:38 That's an interesting example. Okay. So just to be open-minded about the pace and at the same time, be aware of it, how the nontraditional businesses could become your competitor or your partner for that sake. Harsh Sabikhi: 21:56 Exactly. I think also the future is also cooperation we have to stop looking at somebody who is a competitor today as a true competitor rather. They've got a customer base, customers like their products. We have a customer base, customers like our products. How can we potentially work together to keep both of our customers happy and not necessarily worry about, you know, eating into each other's lunch? We eating their lunch. Ed Bilat: 22:27 Wonderful. I love that. Let's finish with the art of storytelling, what, what does it mean to you? Harsh Sabikhi: 22:36 To me, the art storytelling is you tie personal experience to the product that you're selling. If you're talking about building the community. How you build a community on Github or how you build a business on Github? Well, then you can relate that to, well, how did you potentially build something? It could be not related at all to Github. In fact, it probably is not related to Github, but it's more about, you talk about the benefits of a collaboration effort, right? At the end of the day, Github is a collaboration platform. Storytelling should be, you lead with what does collaboration mean to you? How have you used collaboration before? Give an example of that and then you get into collaboration at Github and then you... Like a hamburger, right? And then you end off again and how you tie that back into your initial opening of that story that you tell. Ed Bilat: 23:33 Excellent point so it's not the what and how it's more like why? Why are you doing this? What is your story? What's your personal value and going on the platform? Harsh Sabikhi: 23:46 Exactly, because people talk about business to business or business to consumer or customer. That's B to B, B to C. At the end of the day we're all humans and the underlying common denominator if you will, it's a human to human sale or interaction every day. Ed Bilat: 24:05 It's not B to B or B to C, it's H to H. Harsh Sabikhi: 24:13 We can put call it that. Ed Bilat: 24:14 Perfect. Love that answer, so thank you so much. You guys have any upcoming events or what would be a good way to contact you? Harsh Sabikhi: 24:21 We do. In October, October 16th and 17th, is our Github do universe in San Francisco, registration's open and we highly recommend people coming up to that. We can assure you it won't be like any other conference you've been to, we'll get up dust things very differently. It's in San Francisco at the Palace of Fine Arts and registration's open. Ed Bilat: 24:48 Great. How could our listeners contact you? Harsh Sabikhi: 24:52 On LinkedIn, it's probably the best way. Ed Bilat: 24:55 Okay, perfect. We'll be happy to include that link. Again such a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you for joining us today, I believe we were able to connect really some good takeaways. Harsh Sabikhi: 25:06 Great. Ed Bilat: 25:06 Thanks again for coming to the show. Harsh Sabikhi: 25:08 Thank you so much. Automated Voice: 25:08 That does it for this episode of storytelling for sales, you'll find show notes and links and our webpage; storytellingsales.com. You can subscribe to the podcast on Itunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening. LINKS Jack Ma Texas Instruments Netflix Amazon Facebook Google Uber Airbnb Coursera Code Composer Studio Microsoft Udemy…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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e009- "Don't Outsell your competitors, Out Question them!"| Ed Bilat with Gregg Jorritsma, Senior Director of Sales and Marketing, OnRamp Solutions 30:00

6 years ago30:00

30:00

Gregg has been in leadership roles with some of the most well-known companies in the industry including Citrix, BlackBerry, Bell Mobility, Siebel and Delrina. A passionate advocate for “informed selling” and sales professionalism, Gregg credits his success to having been mentored and coached by some great people that took the time to help him on his journey. Gregg, his wife of 29 years and two sons live in Burlington, Ontario, Canada WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: Inspiration stories of Jim Estill (EMJ Data Systems) and William Tatham (Janna Systems) Gregg's most memorable sales failure The role of the coach and mentor in his sales career Why there’s no such thing as ‘natural’ salesperson SHOW NOTES [00:20] Intro [00:51] Welcome Greg [01:10] Business success stories that inspire Gregg [02:52] Bringing Syrian refugees to Canada [03:15] Officer, Order of Canada [06:30] Commitment and passion [07:30] How he got into sales [08:15] Moving to Waterloo [09:05] Getting the first sales job [10:55] No such thing as “natural” sales reps [11:15] Confidence [11:32] Asking customers questions and listening [11:48] Don’t out-sell competitors; out-question them [12:35] A favorite failed deal [13:28] Comforting remarks from his former sales manager [14:24] Keeping in perspective winning and losing [15:41] How storytelling helps sales [17:25] The type of story prospects want to hear [19:05] Using storytelling to overcome objections [21:06] Providing a solution [23:00] Challenges facing today’s sales leaders [23:30] Technology and mobility [28:35] Contact info [29:40] Outro SHOW TRANSCRIPT Greg Jorritsma: 00:00 When you start a story, typically you can see a physical change in how people in the room are seated and how they're looking at your changes. I always explain that as when you start telling a story, people are preconditioned and hard-wired to listen and they drop their critical thinking barrier. Automated Voice: 00:23 This is the storytelling for sales podcast, a show about leveraging the power of storytelling to ignite your sales performance and grow your business. Ed Bilat : 00:33 Hello, this is Ed Bilat, and today we'll have a deep and introspective show for you with a great sales leader and my distinguished guest, Gregg Jorritsma, senior director of sales and marketing at On-Ramp solutions is joining us from Toronto, Canada. Gregg Jorritsma. Welcome to the show. Greg Jorritsma: 00:52 Well, thank you very much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here, and I appreciate the invitation to be part of this. It's a great opportunity. I'm happy to take part. Ed Bilat : 01:01 I'm really excited that you could join us today and would love to jump right to the interview but before we do this, I will ask you our traditional question, what business success story inspires you and why? Greg Jorritsma: 01:13 That's a great place to start actually. Because I think a lot of this is about identifying someone and seeing something in somebody that you want to emulate and make part of your life. Greg Jorritsma: 01:24 I've always been of the mind that there are no Roy Hobbs out there. There are no natural salespeople, none that I've ever met anyway. I think everyone that is achieving success in sales at some point in their career, mostly early in their careers, had somebody see something in them and really take the effort to sort of mentor them and coach them. I have had the great benefit of having some wonderful people coach me and mentor me over the years, and there are a couple that really stand out above more so than some of the others. A couple I would refer to are both William Tatham and Bill Tatham from Janice systems and now NexJ Health but also Jim Estill. Jim Estill founded EMJ distribution in Guelph when he was just out of university. He started the business by selling printer supplies out of the trunk of his car. Greg Jorritsma: 02:17 He built that business up to probably just shy of $1 billion before one of the big boys Cynics acquired the company. Ed Bilat : 02:27 Okay. That's not a bad position. Greg Jorritsma: 02:30 Yes. That's not bad stuff. But I think what really resonates with me about Jim Estill is he's always had this sort of a philosophy of being more than just a business guy, but being involved in his community and giving back. A few years ago, anD I think it was 2015, he actually reached into his own pocket. Now it's reported he spent about a $1.5 million and brought 50 Syrian refugee families to Canada and set them up in Guelph. Ed Bilat : 02:58 Oh, this is very recent. Greg Jorritsma: 03:02 When I first read about that, I mean it didn't surprise me at all since he was always that type of person that really was not interested in doing good business, but also setting an example. and when he did this, it was just amazing to read about. Greg Jorritsma: 03:15 Recently he's been inducted into the... As an officer of the order of Canada and he's just such a humble man. I've known him for about 20 years. First obviously as a customer selling product Tmj, and then later he has become a friend and a mentor and a real business hero for me. In my mind, I think he is the type of person that you look at and go, Jeez! I hope my kids all grow up to be like him. Ed Bilat : 03:42 Wow! Well, I know you have two boys, so that's a really good example. Greg Jorritsma: 03:46 Yeah, exactly. I think one of the things that really says it all about Jim is after Cynics and Siebel thing, he recently became the owner of Danby appliances in Guelph. One of the first things he did was change the company motto to " Do the right thing". I think that just exemplifies Jim in every way that is possible. He is the type of person that always does the right thing, I think, in my opinion, and he said, you know, in conversations with him, he's told me, it's caused me make some mistakes, and it costs me money, but overall it has served me well and it makes sleeping at night and doing the right thing is, it just makes sense for him. So I've always admired that and kind of look for him for inspiration and guidance from time to time. Ed Bilat : 04:30 That's a wonderful story. Wonderful story and a wonderful source of inspiration for you and the kids. So what you're saying that you can be successful and then you can do the right thing at the same time? Greg Jorritsma: 04:42 Yeah, I think especially in today's environment, there is so much emphasis on profit, profit, profit, stock market reports, stock tickers and everything else that it's easy to get distracted from doing what's right. I really admire him for that. The other business hero that really comes to mind is a gentleman I worked for a couple of times in the late nineties was Bill Tatham. He founded Janice systems, which was a CRM company and he believed in it and was passionate about it to the point where, he confided in me one time that the sheriffs were at the door to take the house at one point, but he believed in what he was doing and was going to make it right. Greg Jorritsma: 05:25 He did. He turned it around and grew that company substantially in the late nineties when companies like Siebel and Clarify and where the dominant players, this little company out of Toronto came out and grew its business by focusing exclusively on the vertical segment of financial services. One of our strategies was focused on the teaching within the book about crossing the puzzles,so we focus exclusively on financial services and despite the fact we were a fraction of the revenue play that companies like Siebel and stuff were, we were winning on Wall Street with Goldman Sachs and Wells Fargo and All state and eventually the big stock players, a Siebel and stuff came knocking and had to buy the company because they needed the roster, they needed the customer roster. I think it's still $1.4 billion. I think it's still one of the top five or six acquisitions of the Canadian company to date. Greg Jorritsma: 06:23 What I've learned from him more than anything and working in that environment is, if you're committed to something and passionate about it and have the discipline more than anything to stick with it. In those early days as we were chasing around trying to find revenue and customers. It would've been easy to avert our focus away from financial services and just take some opportunistic count. But his vision was to focus on financial services. There were opportunities that we bypassed that we probably could have won, but it was really important that we dominated with financial services and as it turned out, that was absolutely the right move to make so that more than anything is, if you believe in it and you're willing to be disciplined about it, you can achieve something is what I really learned from that. Ed Bilat : 07:13 I really love it. Those are great two stories you mentioned. Let's turn the spotlight back at you. Obviously, you have been in sales for orals for many years. I mean Bell, Siebel, Citrix, Round One, SOTI, Blackberry and now On- Ramp Solutions. How did you even get into the sales? Greg Jorritsma: 07:33 Actually completely by accident. Greg Jorritsma: 07:36 What happened? Greg Jorritsma: 07:39 In the late...in about 1988, I had finished college, and I had a summer job last the previous couple summers on an order desk for a chemical supply company. I didn't even consider it a sales role really. I was just answering the phone and taking orders for various electroplating chemicals, most of which I had no idea emphasis on profit, profit, profit, stock market reports, stock tickers and everything else that it's easy to get distracted from doing what's right. I really admire him for that. The other business hero that really comes to mind is a gentleman I worked for a couple of times in the late nineties was Bill Tatham. He founded Janice systems, which was a CRM company and he believed in it and was passionate about it to the point where, he confided in me one time that the sheriffs were at the door to take the house at one point, but he believed in what he was doing and was going to make it right. Greg Jorritsma: 05:25 He did. He turned it around and grew that company substantially in the late nineties when companies like Siebel and Clarify and where the dominant players, this little company out of Toronto came out and grew its business by focusing exclusively on the vertical segment of financial services. One of our strategies was focused on the teaching within the book about crossing the puzzles,so we focus exclusively on financial services and despite the fact we were a fraction of the revenue play that companies like Siebel and stuff were, we were winning on Wall Street with Goldman Sachs and Wells Fargo and All state and eventually the big stock players, a Siebel and stuff came knocking and had to buy the company because they needed the roster, they needed the customer roster. I think it's still $1.4 billion. I think it's still one of the top five or six acquisitions of the Canadian company to date. Greg Jorritsma: 06:23 What I've learned from him more than anything and working in that environment is, if you're committed to something and passionate about it and have the discipline more than anything to stick with it. In those early days as we were chasing around trying to find revenue and customers. It would've been easy to avert our focus away from financial services and just take some opportunistic count. But his vision was to focus on financial services. There were opportunities that we bypassed that we probably could have won, but it was really important that we dominated with financial services and as it turned out, that was absolutely the right move to make so that more than anything is, if you believe in it and you're willing to be disciplined about it, you can achieve something is what I really learned from that. Ed Bilat : 07:13 I really love it. Those are great two stories you mentioned. Let's turn the spotlight back at you. Obviously, you have been in sales for orals for many years. I mean Bell, Siebel, Citrix, Round One, SOTI, Blackberry and now On- Ramp Solutions. How did you even get into the sales? Greg Jorritsma: 07:33 Actually completely by accident. Greg Jorritsma: 07:36 What happened? Greg Jorritsma: 07:39 In the late...in about 1988, I had finished college and I had a summer job last the previous couple summers on an order desk for a chemical supply company. I didn't even consider it a sales role really. I was just answering the phone and taking orders for various electroplating chemicals, most of which I had no idea what they were or what they would be used for. Ed Bilat : 08:00 So that's not even the farmer, you know, it's definitely and, but not a farmer either, right? Greg Jorritsma: 08:07 Not at all. Once the summer ended, I had recently become engaged to my now wife of 29 years. We were young and stupid and we decided to quit our jobs and just move out of Toronto to Waterloo, no jobs, no prospect, nothing. Greg Jorritsma: 08:24 Why would you do that? Greg Jorritsma: 08:26 Well, it was the start of what was going to be our marriage and our life together. We just figured, well, let's just throw. Looking back, there's a saying that goes, it's not youth that is wasted on the young, it's fearlessness. Ed Bilat : 08:42 That's interesting. I can resonate with that. Yeah, absolutely. Greg Jorritsma: 08:45 I remember being so fearless back then. We had no responsibilities. We had no kids, we had no bills, we had no mortgage or anything. It wasn't an easy decision to make but was one that, you don't have all the baggage that you do later on in life to make. Ed Bilat : 09:00 Sure. Greg Jorritsma: 09:01 So we moved and of course back then there was no internet or anything. A few days later I read an ad on a local paper about a new company in town called Desktronics and saw that they were hiring inside sales reps and I thought, well, that was my title at the Chemical Company. Who knows? I applied and I was called in for an interview a few days later. It was 1989 so there was no internet research or anything I could do about the company before I went to the interview. Greg Jorritsma: 09:25 I just put on my best face and best clothes and went for the interview. Ed Bilat : 09:29 And let's show up. Greg Jorritsma: 09:30 Yeah. So I met initially with the director of inside sales and we talked for about 5 to 10 minutes. And to this day I still don't know what it was that I did or said, but she immediately told me," Well, you're way to qualified for this role. Would you be interested in talking to the director of channel sales a better role?" At this point in my life, I didn't even know what channel sales was. I didn't know what the company did, but I said," Sure, I'm keen. Why not?" Greg Jorritsma: 09:58 I met with the director channel sales and about 30 minutes later I was offered a job on the channel sales team. Ed Bilat : 10:04 Right on the spot? Greg Jorritsma: 10:05 Yeah. I was thrilled and terrified all at the same time. I showed up on a Monday and I remember sitting in the lobby waiting for them come and get me. And I remember looking at the poster of the product and thinking, oh, what is that and what does this company do? Greg Jorritsma: 10:20 Yeah, we'll do, they'll do, what do they actually do here? Greg Jorritsma: 10:23 I absolutely had no idea it was even a software company on my first day. I was in that role for about three years with the company until a proceeding, got into some different financial issues and ended up selling the company but I learned how they were selling a see source code application generator, a very technical product for programming and was successful and really got my introduction into software and sales as a whole and I immediately just loved it. Ed Bilat : 10:51 Would you say it was like a natural fit for your abilities? Greg Jorritsma: 10:55 As I said, I don't think there's a natural sales rep. I think there's always more that you can learn and certainly nobody comes in with the answer to every sales problem. Thinking back to that time, I think it was something that I was excited about on a daily basis and I felt I had some success with early on in, in the role. In so many times with salespeople, it's really about confidence. Do you have confidence in what you're selling? Do you know it can make a difference? If you have that confidence, there's a lot of intellectual curiosity goes with that confidence that drives you to learn more and become more capable. I've always found the ability to just ask questions to potential customers and listen to what they're saying can really fuel your imagination as to what kind of solution and what kind of place you can play in that role. Ed Bilat : 11:43 Yeah, that's an interesting point. I've read somewhere actually today they say, "Don't, outsell your competition. You should out question them." Greg Jorritsma: 11:52 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Ed Bilat : 11:54 And this has to do with your success. So obviously, do you have any particular failures like early sales failures? What's your favorite sales failure? Greg Jorritsma: 12:02 Well, of course, every sale I've ever been involved with, I closed. Ed Bilat : 12:05 I'm sure, from day one? Greg Jorritsma: 12:12 Yeah. Actually, I've never lost a deal, of course, there are always different things that come up and things you could've done right or wrong. But I think one of the most significant sales disappointments I've ever had really led to a real epiphany moment with a great manager I had at the time, this was the early nineties and it was the last day of a quarter and we were driving, we had hit the number, but we were driving for over achievement. Greg Jorritsma: 12:40 Right. And I had a deal working and it was going to be there, it was going to come in. And I remember, you know, I was on the phone to the prospect right up till the deadline, right up til the end of the day, only to have the customer in the end, take a last-minute bid from one of the companies that I thought had already been eliminated from the process. Ed Bilat : 13:00 Oh, what a surprise, huh? Greg Jorritsma: 13:02 Yes. Apparently, they came in with some last minute cheat, low ball offer and won. And I remember sitting at my desk and it was maybe about 05:30 by now and I was really upset. I was really disappointed. My sales manager had to walk by and said, you know... asked me. He could see I was visibly upset. Ed Bilat : 13:19 , Of course, you could feel this, right? Greg Jorritsma: 13:23 Absolutely, I'd promised I was going to get it. Greg Jorritsma: 13:24 So, and he said, he came up to me and he put his hand on my shoulder and said, "Hey, it happens. Did you do everything you could do? "And I said, yeah, "And it didn't go your way." No. He told me," You can't beat yourself up about it." This is what has always stuck with me. He said, "We are selling software here. We're not curing cancer. Nobody dies because you didn't close the sale. Now put your head up, go home, be with your family. Your family is more important than any sale would ever be." And another little tidbit he offered a few days later, in the months that always stuck with me too is," You're no good to me here as a salesperson if you don't have a life outside of the office."That's sort of always stuck with me. So over the years in conversations with many reps I've worked with and had on my team and staff, I've always emphasized, take the work seriously. Greg Jorritsma: 14:12 Don't take yourself too seriously. And remember we're selling software, we're not doing brain surgery, we're not curing cancer. Nobody dies if it doesn't work out. And for me it has always been a way of keeping in perspective, winning and losing in the marketplace. When we, when we don't cure cancer either. We're selling software, and we want them to choose ours, but nobody dies if they don't. Ed Bilat : 14:38 That's right. And that gives you an attitude and perspective, right? So just when you're looking at this, this is not the end of the world. It eliminates stress. So your team is more excited, more motivated and they don't feel punished if they've done everything they could and the sale just didn't go your way. So what? Greg Jorritsma: 14:59 Yes absolutely, it happens to everybody. One of the things that I've learned over the years and when I talk about there's no Roy Hobbs or natural salesperson out there. Greg Jorritsma: 15:11 You're asking for rejection, and you make your living day after day being rejected. And so you have to have a perspective. And a more holistic view of what's going on in the world, I think to really make the value in the conversations you have with your prospective clients and coworkers. Ed Bilat : 15:28 That's right. Absolutely. So speaking of your team in the leadership positions in the... You've done everything from a market manager to channel sales manager, director, VP, all these years. How do you think storytelling could be used to motivate your sales team and drive success in terms of reaching or even surpassing quarters and objectives? Greg Jorritsma: 15:49 I think there are so many different things that storytelling really allows you to do. I find it's often the best place to start a conversation and build a connection to a person you are engaging with. I've obviously met people that I've tried to convey things to and sometimes the pushback as well. I don't feel comfortable, or I'm not sure I can actually tell a story and everything. Greg Jorritsma: 16:10 When that comes up I often talk about, okay, so have you ever been to a social event or a cocktail party or anything like that? Well of course they have. When you met someone new there, what did you talk about it? Oh, well, you know, we had a couple of swell and then I've talked about work or my family or whatever. You told a story, right? And Oh yeah, I guess so. And a sales rep comes to me and says, I don't really know how to build a story or how do I craft a story or structure, and I'll talk to them about their last sale. Whose company? They'll tell me. What did they do? What problem were they struggling with? How did our solutions solve their problem? Greg Jorritsma: 16:52 What kind of results are they having today and quickly they ... I guess that's not hard at all. I think if you're not really cautious or told about or understand the value of storytelling to a prospect, there's intimidation; I think to it that you won't be believed or they'll dismiss your story. Is that a hand or it's just a fabrication? And so I think just getting people to the point where you tell stories every day, all the time to everybody. Now put yourself in the prospect's shoes and think about what story would they like to hear. Most often it's a story about a similar company, a similar type of business that was wrestling with a problem cause they probably have a similar problem, how they chose your product, how you built it up, how you deployed it and what kind of results they're getting. Greg Jorritsma: 17:44 The inherent thing in storytelling is that we're hardwired to both tell and listen to a story right from childhood. As a parent, you read stories to your kids and early on they start with, once upon a time, and they typically add happily ever after. Ed Bilat : 18:02 That's right. Greg Jorritsma: 18:02 That's what a customer wants to hear. I think when you start a story, typically you can see a physical change in how people in the room are seated and you know how they're looking at your changes. I always explain that as when you start telling a story, people are preconditioned and hardwired to listen and they drop their critical thinking barriers. If you think about when you go to a movie today a ridiculous movie, a Scifi movie and you know, you suspend your critical thinking to enjoy the story. That's exactly the power and transformative engagement that can happen when you start telling a story on business B, and it's been hugely valuable throughout my career. Greg Jorritsma: 18:50 I was lucky enough, as I said, early on, to have some mentors that really taught me the value of being able to tell us a story. Ed Bilat : 18:56 Yeah, absolutely. I love your response because you're hitting two very important points. One is the actual story, and there is a formula behind it and the second one is the way how you can use storytelling to overcome objections. So instead of saying like, what do you mean you don't have a budget? What do you mean you're not the decision maker? So like all you do, you acknowledged an objection. And by the way, an objection is actually is a good thing. And it's an indication that they will have a conversation with you. Because otherwise they will just go away and there will be no for the talk. So if a person objects to you, that means there is an interest and how do you work with that objection.? Ed Bilat : 19:40 I think you hit on some very important points. Instead of telling them, we have the best in the world, we're going to take care of you well-done millions of times, and we're going to do a good job. You tell them, listen, I appreciate what you're saying. Two months ago we've been working with the company X-Y-Z, and they essentially told us the same thing. There is no budget for that type of project. Then you tell the story, and then you demonstrate the end results, and this is the way the customer will see that, hey, if that worked for somebody else, maybe that could work for me. That's where the magic happens. Greg Jorritsma: 20:19 As you speak about a budget and things like that. One of the stories from a Siebel Day, actually it was the success we had with one of the biggest auto manufacturers in the world. We had won the deal, and it was some months later, and we were having lunch with the decision maker, and I was with the CEO and Bill Tatham, and he asked them, why did we win the deal? I thought the answer was not only fascinating, but it has been a real source of inspiration over the years. Ed Bilat : 20:47 Interesting. Tell me more. Greg Jorritsma: 20:49 The guy told me that of all the vendors, we brought in seven vendors, and of all the vendors, you guys were the only one that didn't ask what the budget was. Greg Jorritsma: 21:01 The answer was, or the response from Mr Tatham was that, the reason we didn't ask about budget was because our only concern was finding a solution that worked for you, our thinking is always that if we provide the right solution, if the budget doesn't fit, you'll either find the money or you'll decide that you don't need that much solution. Ed Bilat : 21:25 So it doesn't matter what the budget is, right? Greg Jorritsma: 21:27 Yeah. So over the years, what that is evolved to is when I have those type of budget discussions is, are you looking for exactly this or are you willing to compromise and do without something so it fits a budget? Is your goal to solve the business problem completely or is it to hit the budget number? When you put that to them, that creates a whole different set of parameters for them. Greg Jorritsma: 21:53 Even if they're not the decision maker in most cases, they're probably not. You're probably talking to the project manager or someone who is in a technical role or whatever and they're obviously very concerned about budget and price because their bosses told them," Okay, you've got this much money and go fix the solution and go find the solution." Getting back into what does that person want to be able to tell, what story does that person want to tell to his boss? In that circumstance it was, we're going to give you the story that says we can solve all your business problems and this, this and this but it's going to cost you an extra percentage so you can decide if you want to spend the extra money to get everything resolved or settle for something that isn't quite...spend that amount of money and still not have exactly what you want. Ed Bilat : 22:42 I love how you've positioned this and it does make sense though in this case isn't budget is irrelevant. This is what we're trying to achieve. This is the task at hand. We are going to help you adjust to that. I think that's an excellent story. Thank you so much for sharing this. Obviously, you've been in new sales situations over the years, you've seen a lot of great leaders. What challenges do you see facing many of today's sales leaders? What's happening today? Greg Jorritsma: 23:09 Well, certainly the world has changed since I started. As for the third or fourth time I'll mention the Internet didn't exist when I started so checking your research on a customer and really preparing yourself for a meeting was a lot more difficult when I started. I think there are two problems that are really relevant today. Greg Jorritsma: 23:27 The first one is technology and mobility. I think it has created a real challenge for sales leaders because you're going to have sales reps working from home offices, working in remote locations or they're on the road, and they have access to all the tools and communication and everything else. But I think quite often because of that convenience of technology; sales managers miss out on a couple of things. And one is, I think it's imperative and what I do all the time is make sure that I'm bringing the group together, let's say quarterly sales meetings so that they have the opportunity to meet with the other sales reps on their team and have social interaction. Ed Bilat : 24:12 See them face to face. Right? Greg Jorritsma: 24:13 Yeah. It creates real trust relationships. The other thing is when I reflect on some of the great learning that I've been exposed to over the years, most often it's been completely informal. I talk with one of the senior sales guys while we're getting coffee in the kitchen or were downstairs having a smoke years ago [crosstalk] or whatever. Greg Jorritsma: 24:43 I think what often goes missing in today's day, and age is the sense that it's really important to bring together the group collectively on a regular basis. Then the second thing around that is, I think it's really important the sales managers also go out to those regions and work one on one with them. Go on a few sales calls every quarter or whatever. Just have that one to one sort of interaction with their team. It offers so much exposure to their lives and who they are as people that it really gives you a great insight into how to build and how to support that person. A favorite line of mine is fair and same or not the same terms are not synonymous. The idea that what works for one person, if I give this other person the same thing, they should be successful isn't the way the world works anymore. Greg Jorritsma: 25:35 People learn differently. People have different behavior practices and different requirements. You need to be flexible and understand that your objective as a sales leader is to give each individual on your team what they need to have an equal opportunity at success. Now for some that might be almost a completely hands-off relationship with the person that they know what they're doing, they're just gone, and they do. It might require to talk to you periodically get some coaching, another, it's all over the board, but if you're not receptive to the idea that you need to support different people on the team in different ways and you're not willing to go out and naturally spend that time with them one on one, I think that becomes a real issue in today's world. The other one that I think is an age-old problem is the use of a CRM. In my experience over the years, too many CRMs lean way too heavily on what management wants from data as opposed to building something that is supportive and it guides the sales rep through the sales process. The best deployments are ones where the sales rep actually loves using the CRM and doesn't see it as a burden and a chore to do. Ed Bilat : 26:54 Right. Like as of as a punishment or like a big brother watch, right? Greg Jorritsma: 27:00 Yes, exactly and if they feel that way about the CRM, what happens is the data you're getting in is minimal. It's incomplete; it's not what you ultimately set out to get. I always tell people that a sales CRM should drive the sales rep through each stage of the sales cycle and give them specific tasks and chores that need to be accomplished in each stage before you can check off and move it to [crosstalk.] Ed Bilat : 27:25 It's a tool. It's a useful tool which will also help the sale. Greg Jorritsma: 27:31 It's a roadmap. Ed Bilat : 27:33 This is just like something I feel out on Friday afternoon, so management is not going to punish me on Monday morning. Greg Jorritsma: 27:40 When you get to that level, the sales reps want to use it and want to be involved in it. When a sales rep starts to struggle as everyone does periodically, it gives them a basis to go back and say," Okay, I got to get back to doing that, and I got to do this." Then from a new hire perspective, it gives them a roadmap as to what others have done here and how they were successful. I think there's a real balance between building the CRM so that you get the data out of you want as a management group but also making it a supportive and consultive tool for the sales reps that are working day today. Ed Bilat : 28:15 That's a wonderful suggestion. Both of them. I liked them so far. Any of our podcast listeners, sales leaders, please listen up to these two. We'll make sure to summarize them, so we are getting towards the end of our podcast. It's been a wonderful, combination of wisdom and practical experience. Gregg, before we disconnect, what's the best way to connect with you for our listeners? Greg Jorritsma: 28:41 Sure. I'm on LinkedIn, I've got all my contact information, unlike almost everybody else. I have an email address and a phone number on my LinkedIn profile. Ed Bilat : 28:49 Oh well you're very brave. Greg Jorritsma: 28:52 I'm always holding the talking to you. The other thing, the other party, one of the other pieces of advice I received early on, and I've always kept to, I always share with people, when someone wants to talk to you, you learn nothing by saying no. Whether somebody's calling for a job, would you be interested in that job about this as well? If I say no, even if I'm not particularly looking or interested, I say no, I'll never know anything about it so always say yes. Always be willing to have a discussion and listen and learn. Ed Bilat : 29:22 That's right, and you will know, or you'll never know where at thou could take you. Wonderful.Thank you so much, Gregg. I really, really appreciate it, so we'll make sure to include your contact information. It's been wonderful to have you on the show today. Greg Jorritsma: 29:37 Thank you very much. I really enjoyed it. Ed Bilat : 29:40 Thank you. Bye for now. Automated Voice: 29:42 That does it for this episode of storytelling for sales; you'll find show notes and links and our webpage storytellingsales.com you can subscribe to the podcast on Itunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening. LINKS On-Ramp Solutions Danby Appliances NexJ Systems Wall Street Siebel Wells Fargo Citrix BlackBerry SOTI Goldman Sachs Roy Hobbs Jim Estill William Tatham Bill Tatham Connect with Gregg Jorritsma on LinkedIn…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

1
e007- "How AI and Video Will Change Sales| Ed Bilat and Sahir Pandhare with Bill Ball, Director of Learning and Development at DISYS 35:20

6 years ago35:20

35:20

Bill plays a strategic role not only in role-based development, but how people, systems, and departments can positively impact the success of the Sales teams, and ultimately their companies. He believes salespeople come to work every day to be successful in their role, and there is an opportunity through architecture to enable their roles in a meaningful way. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: How to use Storytelling in Sales How to build Storytelling Sales library within your company How AI and Video Will Change Sales SHOW NOTES [01:03] Welcome Bill [01:09] Introducing co-host, Sahir [01:26] Business success stories that inspire Bill [01:58] Creating a Coaching culture within the organization [03:52] Call recording as game films [05:08] Gary Milwit story [06:50] Working as a group [07:50] Creating a sustainable system (library of stories) [08:51] Sport and sales analogy [09:00] How Bill got into sales [13:46] Learning to be brief and specific [15:25] Speak and write in bullets [16:33] Tailoring messages [17:16] The importance of mentors [17:49] Expanding your network [18:15] Self-development [19:00] Taking a cue from your network [19:30] Education and learning [20:13] Learning and development [20:20] Digital Intelligence Systems [22:18] Institutional knowledge [23:33] How storytelling affects sales [24:34] Behavior change [25:05] Customer [25:56] Neuro-coupling phenomena during [26:44] Encouraging salespeople [27:32] Talent [27:37] Environment [28:24] Compensation and incentives [29:23] Pipeline review [30:48] Sales trends to watch out for [31:19] The role of Videos and AI [33:19] new Prospecting models [33:33] The art of storytelling for Bill [34:14] Contact info Show transcript Ed Bilat : 00:31 Hello, this is Ed Bilat Joining me today is Bill Ball, the director of learning and development. of digital intelligence systems. Bill Is also a founding member of sales enablement society and he's very passionate about sales talent management, sales enablement, and sales effectiveness. Bill plays a strategic role load on them in the role of the development, but how people, systems and departments can positively impact the success of producers and ultimately are companies deal with. Welcome to the show. Bill Ball: 01:05 Hey, thanks for having me. Ed Bilat : 01:06 Absolutely great to have you on the show. I will be joined today by Sahir Ponderay is my co-pilot and the cohost as well here in Ottawa today. Bill, I'm thrilled to have you on the show. Thank you for joining us. We would love to hear your story, but before we do this, I will ask you all a traditional question. What type of business success story inspires you and why? Bill Ball: 01:30 So I thought about this and there are quite a few entrepreneurial stories that excite me, but I thought one that maybe I was a part of where I wasn't the ultimate success, but I was really proud to be a part of it is something that I thought I would share. Ed Bilat : 01:43 Sure. Bill Ball: 01:44 Great. So most businesses from a sales standpoint strive most modern businesses, and I'm throwing this out as not just a shared truth among sales organizations, but I think it's probably a universal truth at this point that many sales organizations are striving to have a coaching culture of some kind. So late two thousand I was working for an organization where we had one. We were really proud of it. You know, the job market at that time I think helped us a little bit where we had to people with greater tenure who are willing to give their time back. You know, they were brought in and they knew if they were sitting next to great other people doing their job, they'd be able to cross-pollinate and learn things from each other. So we created a circle of veteran peers who were coaching their peers and everybody was getting coaching from the leadership as well. But it's just, you know, as well as I do, people tend to make changes when they see their peers making those changes. They'll take guidance from the leaders, but they really make changes when they see peers making changes. Ed Bilat : 02:43 Absolutely. This is something useful. Let's see. Okay, I need to this for myself as well. Bill Ball: 02:48 Exactly. So that got a little bit more challenging when the job market improved because you know, we were fine, but at the same time, we had people sort of circulating in out, because we're hiring a lot of recent college grads and so we had people circulating in and out, no fault of theirs. They were learning, you know, what they wanted to do or coaching culture was still solid. But you know, eventually, even with a coaching culture, you can't rely on entirely new people to carry a torch of that pure coaching because they don't have the experience and at some point, it becomes a little bit of the blind leading the blind. You don't know who was a real leader. Yeah, it's the last thing that you want to have happened is yes, great coaching culture, but you have what's called rogue coaching where it's like, well, hey, I don't know how everybody else is doing this, but this is how I do it. Bill Ball: 03:38 Start multiplying that across the workforce. You know, it wasn't total pandemonium or anything like that, but it was just not like it was. At the same time, we started looking at technology to help with this kind of thing. We were an early adopter of thinking about, I mean this is an inside sales organization, so we're thinking about call recording as game film, which was very progressive at that time. We're talking mid to late two thousand so a little bit of a different story now, but very progressive. Then where you know, you bring up call recording. I think in some organizations now anyway, and they're still thinking, okay, this is the big brother, you know, why do you want to listen to my stuff? Versus thinking like, okay, most athletes watch game film to get better. But being a younger company and being noodle this and being sort of, you know, pioneers on are trailblazers. Bill Ball: 04:27 We didn't roll it out very well. So some people you know appreciate it. Some people did and the technology wasn't where it is today. It was a little bit of a struggle. And so this forced us to learn a lot about change management, but we eventually did get to a place of where we were reviewing at least as leaders one on ones with people and listening to their calls and talking to them about their game film. And that was great, but we still weren't back to that pure coaching level. You know, like if appears going to review the game, fill them with another peer and they're both, you know, three to six months in like there's only so much advantage that can be gained from that. So we had a lot of friends. The previous business owners that I worked for a long time, we're pretty well connected within the inside sales world. Bill Ball: 05:07 And there was one gentleman, his name's Gary Milwit, he works for a financial firm in Maryland. He's the sort of prototypical ex-football coach. Really tough guy that you know you either love or hate, but his people loved him. I believe he was an AI espy award winner for a sales leader one year too. Yeah, sounds like a really good combination. I mean I would see someone in those boats feel, especially coaching athletes would have a really good understanding of how to communicate with someone and actually help coach and various aspects of sales, like how to close a deal or how to pitch properly for certain. And so he like us had started embracing call recording may be a little after we did, but either way, he was starting to use it with his team as a group. And so we went and visited him and wash that an action. Bill Ball: 06:01 And it's not as simple as you think there are rules, you know, everybody has to know. It's a safe place. Like there are certain kinds of comments that aren't allowed there. Certain kinds of comments that are allowed. There was, you know, in some way, like I think he had sort of stumbled into something that was tremendous. We brought it back to our organization and that was the whole reason we sat in, you know, we're like, hey, we want to see what's happening here. We want to see if this is something that's viable to bring back. And ended up being something that was really viable to bring back. So we started testing it with the CEO leading and testing out those rules. And it started out as a one-way conversation. But what it ultimately branched out to was I led them and our managers led them and our peers led them and we started breaking down those moments of the conversation where something really valuable happened. Bill Ball: 06:51 And when you can do that as a group, it's so much more powerful than when you know you're sitting next to your neighbor as a sales peer and you're saying what happened? And you know, everybody remembers that last objection. But maybe three minutes before that, the call, you know, went off track somewhere. So being able to do that as a group and start establishing business specific best practices around that was a huge, huge win for us. The ultimate thing that happened though was it became a pure coaching thing again because we identified the key elements of conversations and we identified how to get better at them as a group and the top of the mountain ended up being every month we actually hosted a call competition where people would submit calls to their managers, the managers would submit them to myself and the business owners. We would judge and in some cases you know down the road, left appears judge and play them all back, you know, in a group meeting once a month. So using that and then actually taking these call recording elements and putting them in a library where people could say, okay, I want to hear what good objection handling sounds like or I want to hear what a good introduction sounds like. By doing that, we were able to bring back a pure coaching culture because we're able to, you know, get new people onboard fast, understanding what good looks like. Ed Bilat : 08:09 I love that example. I think that's a great story. And I see you combining two elements here. So one is a starting your own story library, right? So like that's what we're trying to teach our clans that instead of having those separate stories, why don't you create a company-wide library that at any given moment any member of your team can go and borrow a book, have the particular volume on the situation, their work you with. Right? Right. And another one is starting your own objection collection. The library, right? So this is what exactly you have done with his help or that coach. I think that's a terrific story. So thank you so much for sharing. I think it's the actually good segue to my next question. We just talked about the combination of sports and sales and then I do look at your Ed Bilat : 08:56 own background. I see you been majoring in English and creative writing before. How did you even get into sales world yourself? Bill Ball: 09:04 Good grief. So I grew up with a father as a traveling sales rep who worked for himself. Nowadays, it's not so exciting when the phone rings in your house, you know, whatever you say. I got it, I got it, I got it right. You know, back and forth caller id, that was a really big thing. But literally, 80% of the time the phone rang at my house. Everybody would run to get it. And it was from my dad defeating. So you know, between that and you know, me being a free spirit, you know, I think I thought more about how much I wanted to play in a band my last year and college. Then you know what I was going to do the next steps and hopefully, my parents aren't listing. Bill Ball: 09:42 But when I finished school he was like, Hey, you want to come work for me? You know, I tried to say in the nicest way like, are you crazy? Why would they do this? Yeah. But you know what? You can't deny personas and DNA to some point. So I was always that friend who had to recommend music to other friends or restaurants to other friends. Like I was that connector friend. You know, I had a vision of what I wanted and what I liked. And I would say probably my wife would say I'm pretty outspoken about those things and sometimes to my own detriment. But eventually, I just needed to find something that I was passionate in. So I played in bands and I ended up working in a recording studio, which I thought was, you know, what I wanted to do, you know, meanwhile, I mean this was the probably late nineties so meanwhile there's a lot happening with technology. Bill Ball: 10:30 At that point. There was the megahertz race and this was before gigahertz with apple and IBM. There are all kinds of interesting things. My friends and I were getting excited about that. One day I went into the studio and I was working there as initially an intern and then a second engineer because I wanted to learn how to document music. That was a big passion of mine and the band was late and it was myself and the head engineer, you know, he was like, Bill, I'm x, Y, Z years old. We're talking about technology and lots of things, different things happening and kind of the future, you know, eve absolutely. Flash was exciting, iPods were exciting. You know, like this was probably even right before those. So lots of the talk about, and he said, you know what, I love this job, but I'm in a dark room for a really long time and I don't make very much money. Speaker 1: 11:18 It's a labor of love. But honestly, if I had picked a different trade, you know, I think I'd have more options now in this guy was one of my heroes. So it really made me think, you know, and I grew up, you know, even as misogynistic as it is watching James Bond and be like, I want to have awesome sports cars and I want to travel and meet amazing people. And so that really made me think like, okay, you know what? Maybe this is not my way forward. So I made a hard pivot. I did a few temp jobs. I eventually started working for a retail store that sold Apple products, and this was before Apple even had stores. So this is kind of like a small business consultant place and I was rough at first, but by the end of my first, let's say the month and a half, I was leading the rest of the company in sales and it was because I had found something that I was passionate about. Ed Bilat : 12:10 Well, what was the need to challenge earlier on that? Obviously, you haven't been trained in sales, right? So you just have to see that this is your passion, this is where you can sort of how that alignment through the 11 goals. But what was, was he a major challenge Bill Ball: 12:24 earlier on? Well, earlier on I didn't have a lot of challenges. It was easy for me to say, okay, this is what I have in inventory. These are the people coming in. If I ask them for what they want and I don't have it, I'm going to lose. Right? I mean, it's that straight forward. I need to just talk to them and break. Sort of the typical mold of the salesperson. I mean we had competitions with us, you know, how quickly can you get this middle-aged woman, you know, on a first name basis that comes into the retail store. You know, just those kinds of things because it wasn't a big mental challenge once you have the product knowledge. But after that, you know, thinking that okay, I'm doing great here, I'm off for my next sales job. And that ended up being a traveling rep job where I had to do a lot of self-motivation. Bill Ball: 13:09 I wasn't prepared at all. I had no idea. I was used to people coming into me. So that was hurdle number one. But I think it's a big thing that really clicked for me because I went from retail sales to outside sales and then back into inside sales where I was like, okay, you know what? I haven't done this. I really like technology. I need to take a step back to take a larger step forward. And what I really learned first was because I wanted to advance quickly in that business was how to make a business case. And I didn't know because of my degree that you mentioned I was an English major. I'm clearly talky. I'm very verbal. So learning how to be brief and specific, Ed Bilat : 13:47 which is not a bad thing at all, right? Bill Ball: 13:50 Sure. But you have to learn how to annotate yourself, right? So learning how to be brief and specific and point to deliverables and measurables. The CEO and I did not get along well at first on that level, but once I learned how to communicate and speak that language, you know, I ended up being an email coach for a lot of other sales reps. Ed Bilat : 14:10 This is where the real writing helps, right? Yeah. And unless soul, good copywriters, like extremely, extremely valuable now. And then like every little sentence, every little inclination that told humor, everything that comes into place, like the real art to creating something, what people will pay attention out of all the noise will even today. Right, Bill Ball: 14:31 right. What's breaking the mold of all of the other vendor noise, right? Absolutely. We did say you were alone. Yes. I was a lot more verbose than I needed to be. You know, I thought I needed to tell the story of my work. Say I wanted a promotion or I wanted to see a change happen. Getting changes to happen in business, you have to completely translate what you're trying to achieve to the audience of the person you're reaching out to. So if you're talking to a CFO, right? Being an l and d person right now, if I go in with a bunch of Jingoistic Ellen Detox, you know I'm going to be talking to a wall. You have to translate what you're saying to the audience that you have. So I didn't understand how to speak to a CEO. I didn't understand, hey, these are the things that I've accomplished. This is why I want this promotion. This is what I expect to accomplish. And be able to point to actual results and speak and write in bullets and easily digestible things versus a diatribe I really had to learn that sat here. Ed Bilat : 15:32 Yeah, absolutely. Look the white spaces and formatting as so many times, you know, when we're talking to the sales leaders and they say, okay, one of my sales are up, just send me an email and I'm reading it and I understand that it's a good idea. I just don't have 50 minutes to actually read it and the really, really comprehend it. And then you get another email where everything is bullet points, you know, concise. And there is a what the coke engagement call to action. Even the internal communication and say, well Kelly, I want to talk to him. I'm going to call him right now and we'll figure this out. Right? And as simple as it sounds, that's the entire decision making. And it happens internally. And of course, it happens when we see some customers. So I think it's a tremendous skill view house. So that's great. So thank you for sharing this. Bill Ball: 16:18 First of all, it's making the message about the person, right? So it's the first thing that name mean to see that why is this relevant for me? You'd have to put yourself in their shoes. Anytime you're creating something for somebody else, even in a first sales email. So individually tailoring your message for your specific audience. Yes. And making it about them, not making it about you. So speaking in a language they can understand, but also if it's an initial message, if you're talking about a prospect, it's gotta be about them. The first thing, think about this. Think about what you do and what you think about when you're scanning your LinkedIn messages or you're listening to your voice mails or you're looking at your email box, you're looking at your subject line, you're looking at the length of that email. You're looking at who it's from, all of those things. You're looking for a reason to sort or flag, do I need to pay attention to this or can I dump it because you already have too much of it, right. So we have to be relevant as communicators internally or externally, really quickly. Ed Bilat : 17:13 Absolutely. I love it. Idea. Cool. Do you follow in sales, where did you learn their craft? Bill Ball: 17:19 Who was helping you? Oh Man. So there's been lots of people along the way. Naturally. I spent a lot of time at this business called Vorsight, which is now associated with a business called ExecVision. And I have to think all of the people that I work with, they're including the cofounders, Steve, Richard and David Stillman, David Stillman as the person who I really, you know, struggled with to learn how to speak to an established business case. And once I did it, yeah, we're still good friends. But I think, you know, this is a chance where there are people that I follow. What I would advocate is constantly expanding your network and going to events and getting out of your day to day because that's where you know, you're actually taking a pause to work on your own self-development. So people are helpful. You know, there are lots of really smart people out there, but just being able to take a little bit of time, you know, whether you're reading something or whether you're actually going to an event because at that one point you're finally just focused on your own self-development. Bill Ball: 18:17 It's very difficult in your job to do that. You know, you may be thinking that you're getting developed and your job, and you certainly are for people like me, from sales managers, from your peers, but if you don't do that extra layer, it really doesn't help you establish perspective that you can bring back inward with the things that you learned. That would be my thought on who do I follow. You know, I meet people all the time. The other thing that I've learned along those lines, and we may talk about this a little later, is if you think that you have to have all the answers, you're in for a struggle. So knowing that I'm part of a group outside of my work in my profession called the sales enablement society, and there are lots of advantages we're trying to define that, take the profession forward, a number of major objectives. Bill Ball: 19:00 But the thing that's been best for me is saying, you know what? I want to try this. You know who in my network, somebody in my network has tried this before and failed before me many times. So just realizing like you don't have to have all the answers and reaching out to somebody in that network that you've built to try to get that answer just inherently expands your perspective here. Two points. The first one is basically education is what other people trying to do to you and the alerting is what you're doing for yourself. So go into those events, finding something really valuable for yourself, those golden nuggets you can use right then the second one, not to underestimate the power over your network because we already have that connection. You already have your own think tank where you can go in. The old you've got to do is just to ask cause anyone has done that before. Bill Ball: 19:54 These are correct and that was way more succinctly than I put it and it was okay. Great. We are always looking for golden nuggets, flow listeners in a certain shirt just right. Then we just in the middle of the interview, so let's move to the second area, which was really interesting on the profile, which is the learning and development and then, I've read one of the statements and obviously you work for a technology company, digital intelligence systems, will you guys do global staffing and 90 consulting? How did you get to do that with technology? For somebody in my profession, even though my title is one of the more generic titles, it's director of learning and development. I'm a salesperson by trade. Certainly, that's evident in my background and some of the things that we've discussed, but I'm also enablement focused, meaning that I'm looking to help our people in our organization, particularly our salespeople and our delivery people. Speaker 1: 20:46 So I'm technically field enabled that sales enablement. I've got to care about the recruiters too, so they're part of my key audience. It's helping them with what they need to know and what they need to show and removing those hurdles out of the way, whether it's things that they need to get better at or you know, how other people in the organization are affecting them. So for me, I chose technology, not necessarily because of the industry, but partly because the work, because of the type of job, the type of job that I wanted to do and the type of challenge that I wanted to have was here. But for me it's also not just industry, it's people. When I came through the interview process, it staffing is a consolidated industry. You know, it's a tricky play right now for some of the organizations. A lot of people are being acquired or you're acquiring organizations. Bill Ball: 21:34 We acquired another organization earlier this year, so I heard two things from the CEO that were very heartening to me. One that because of differentiation, he saw learning and development as a key strategy going forward to motivate and develop our people here. And he saw that as a differentiating factor to second. You know, he shared that same bit with me that I just shared in it. Staffing people are being acquired or they're acquiring others. Diocese is in the business of acquiring others. They want to grow. So those the two things that got me on board, the institutional knowledge, it was hard though. One thing I'd like to point out, I was at a previous organization for nine years and in a series of different roles, so being a part of the institutional knowledge to coming to an organization where I had no institutional knowledge, it was definitely intimidating and an interesting choice. Bill Ball: 22:25 So I had to feel right with the direction the business was headed and for the type of work that I was going to do. Absolutely, because you're also a leader in your organization, right? There's a manager as a director, as a mentor, as a trainer, console him, coach. So you do know those things. So I owe loading in the operational technology, but I spend the majority of my time on development and talent. So I thought those were really interesting. Look, many people could formulate it like that. Well, that was a little bit of knowing my audience on Linkedin, right? So I teach salespeople how to be more effective, but certainly, salespeople are going to be looking at my profile and asking questions. I kind of wanted to set them up and say what I really care about is spotting gaps and then going to the technology versus like if you hit me up with, you know, a one trick pony email over Linkedin, I'm probably not going to respond to you. Bill Ball: 23:16 It's all about the business strategy and working with the business to identify the gaps and then mapping the technology back versus saying, hey, there's some sexy new technology I need to run after it. I want to get this. And speaking of getting the attention, as a leader, as a coach, how do you think storytelling could help to motivate your sales team and actually drive the success in terms of reaching Oh, evil, Sebastien quarters or objectives? I think it's in three ways and if I get lost while I'm explaining this, hopefully, you'll hold me accountable. Okay. First off, it ties back to the story I told at the beginning of our conversation where peers make changes because appears I'm going to make changes because of what I learned from another enablement person. You know, salespeople are going to make changes from other salespeople that they admire or respect in the organization. Bill Ball: 24:06 So when I do an in-person training for example, or if even online being able to have people have wind stories associated with the learning objectives, you know, even if it's just about a skill like objection handling or it may be something as small as setting agendas for meetings. Just seeing peers key in on that and see that behavior change is huge, but you have to tee that up with peer sharing that to peers. You know, I'm a little modest about talking about behavior change because I don't know if we necessarily need to change somebody's behavior. It almost sounds like we're brainwashing them a little bit, just changes in their game. They're going to learn that by hearing other peer stories. This is where I was, you know, this is what I discovered about myself. Hey, I'm just like you. So facilitating a way for peers to share stories is how you get them to try new things. Bill Ball: 24:58 So that's the first way. You asked me about a few different ways. I would say the second way is with customers, right? And this is something that, you know, we have to challenge marketing with what story moves one customer from learning about you to being a little bit more curious, to want to have a serious conversation. Those are stories that drive each of those steps in their buying process. And it's the same for the salesperson. What stories can you tell that is going to drive a customer to everybody wants to see themselves in somebody else's shoes? It goes back to talking about messaging, how we were talking about messaging before you know, you want to quickly say you're looking in your email inbox. How is this relevant? To me, the most powerful way that we can make something relevant to somebody is through a story. Bill Ball: 25:46 If they can see themselves in that story, they're captivated. It's in a conversation, it's in a training environment, it's in content. It's imperative, wonderful things. Captains, one would fill the story and the look of love that you will, the science one is assumption gold in euro and another one is called [inaudible]. So when you were accomplishing means that they actually made a research letter, good stories fold the Bulls brain, set up your rate on the same frequency and the person that you're telling the story too, they see themselves in that story. Right? So like it's happening to them. And so that's one and another one they actually feel you are empathy created, right? Because they understand the feelings and the neuro your emotions and you can't create as little was anything else marketing wise. So that's why it's so powerful. I'm so glad he already utilize it within the organization. Bill Ball: 26:39 That's terrific. So here I think you had the questions. Yes, Bill, I was wondering what is the best way to motivate salespeople? There are obviously many bays like there are a bonus says exotic Krebs as like a VIP club. But what do you think is the best way to the morning where it tells people? I don't think there is a way. I think it's a combination of elements that end up driving performance and driving people. There's you being the best judge of talent if you're bringing the wrong kinds of people. And it may just be roles. You know, someone's not inherently good or bad, and I know that's a Duh, but you know, if you're looking for an account manager and you've got a hunter, I've actually seen that backward. I know a lot of people say, you know, I want hunters and not account managers. Bill Ball: 27:22 Sometimes that's a backward thing. If you have somebody who just wants to break accounts and they don't want to do the work afterward to go broad, deep, you don't have the right person for the role. So talent would be one sec. The next would be the environment. You know, are people motivated by what's happening around them? Do you have an office where like nobody shows up because everybody's working from home? You've got to figure that out. How are people staying connected and staying motivated environment's huge? I'm a big advocate for loud and for people being able to hear each other and for that spring, everybody's development. I'm, you know, open, public transparent with information, data stories, that kind of thing because why not communicate it? Why not share it? So environments a big key, you know, I think we can debate the whole open office thing, but that's not where I'm going necessarily. Bill Ball: 28:12 It's just a, you know if people are doing the same role, like they need to be able to see each other's work and be a part of each other's work to expand and grow their work and drive things. Obviously, the incentives, if the compensation and the incentives aren't in line, then you're already fighting a losing battle that makes it tough to hire. That makes it tough to retain people. Even if you do a great pitch in the interview process and you don't have incentives, then you're not motivating people. You're going to lose, you're going to have just a treadmill of new hires over and over again until you know Glassdoor eventually calls you out. Finally, there are a few other pieces, but understanding what good looks like and what success looks like in a job from activities to objectives to results and being able to show that employee what good looks like from these are the things you need to do day in and day out and this is the equation of things that you need to do to be successful. Bill Ball: 29:02 What does success look like from a benchmark? Yes, results, right? A lot of people do it, but what's the map of activities that lead back to that result? There should be an equation there. And then finally, how are they using those activities and objectives and results to self-performance manage. You talk to managers and I think the quintessential thing is the idea of their one on ones being a pipeline review and those things are great, but you know what I would say is a, certainly use some of those pipeline reviews as coaching sessions instead on a particular skill that you've inspected. But B, if it's a pipeline review, have the employee do it, have them own that data and have them drive that conversation. You know, that lightens the lift on you and it also lets you know that they're hearing you if you guys have the same vision of objectives and results. Bill Ball: 29:51 So I think it's a combination of all those things. And then when you start throwing out, I think you mentioned you know, Presidents Club, that kind of stuff. Yes, like that's key to a culture, but that's also a tricky one. It's a moving target. You're not going to motivate the entire group of people with one kind of incentive. So you need to keep it going. You know, for more senior people, maybe it's time off for monetary incentives or trips or escapes just so they can unplug. For junior people, it's doing activities together, but it's also like getting out early. You know, like that's the one that I've seen time and time again be the thing that like presses the button. It may not be money, it may just be like getting their time back. So all of those things, great. Sahir : 30:31 Why not think about trends, technologies that are rocking the sales end street today. You have the rise of artificial intelligence, automation, the rise of generation Y as they're becoming a rising powerhouse as both buyers and sellers. There is a trend towards account based selling. I want to ask you what sales trends do you think we should watch out and 2019 as the new year is coming by. What do you think we should watch out for in this industry? Speaker 1: 30:56 I think all of the things that you mentioned, ABM and AI are are important as a simple one that's possibly obvious and possibly not as just video. There are lots of applications that aren't expensive, where are free for salespeople to shake up the typical email, voicemail saying and use video and some of them give you teleprompters. I mean they get pretty involved, but we can't deny that videos now and becoming a big part of selling. You don't have to be a social seller to use video. It's huge. And Ai certainly too, right? Scaling, you know that coaching and inspection are helpful, but what I would say is with AI you always run the risk of creating too much rigor. We need to look at AI and how it flatters the architecture that we've built. There's still needs to be some kind of jazz band in there. Speaker 1: 31:42 Without it, there isn't any creativity. I've seen both sides with new hires and experienced people and if you really locked down too hard what good looks like and a machine can certainly do that. You start limiting what people can become. So finding a strike, a balance between the organic and the architecture I think is huge. And then how we use AI in it. But you know the people that say AI is going to replace sales coaches or you can let the AI do the work. There has to be the organic human touch in there too. Ed Bilat : 32:13 This, this is so true Bill. So look, don't they just tried to use AI for scheduling sales appointments and the natural salespeople just start using AI mean though to send those appointed one sentence. Right, right. Let's see what actually happened. There's would be angry customers to tell me, okay, if my business is so important to you, but why did you throw them into the robot? Could continue to ask me some questions at the end and trying to see where I'm available like just call me and you know, let's talk because that's the reason that you wanted to talk to me. Right? So to have that conversation, why do I have to deal with the machine, which doesn't understand my responses? So like what are you trying to sell me at this point? Right? Bill Ball: 32:58 That's misplaced, right? So maybe right now, where are we are a hair appointment and not a sales appointment. Somebody wants a sales appointment with me. I'm thinking like I'm the scale, right? One Hand has to fill up with value and it has to outweigh the amount of time in the other hand that it's going to take on my calendar. And I think it's really difficult to convey that through Ai. I know prospecting is possibly the hardest and most painful part of selling, but that's absolutely the reason that we shouldn't leave it up to AI. Ed Bilat : 33:27 Absolutely. Thank you. You've been terrific and so really appreciate it. I'm going to ask you one last question. What does the arc of storytelling mean to you? Bill Ball: 33:36 I think it's all of the things that we hit on, right. But when ultimately audience can see themselves in what you're conveying, that's where the empathy, that's where the change, that's where the way forward happens. It's such a key to our communication and frankly, communication and lack of it is where we go wrong. And our roles were way too committed to outputs versus communication. And if we can use more communication and stories to tell that that's what captivates people, that's what gets people engaged and that's what creates business and moves us forward. Ed Bilat : 34:12 Excellent. Thank you so much. So Bill, what's the best way to connect with you or follow you on the social media for our listeners? Bill Ball: 34:18 I think, you know, hopefully, you been entertained if he looked at my Instagram. But what I would say is professionally I'm just good old. Linkedin is fine. I'm happy to connect and talk to anybody as long as it's not a sales development representative who asked for a meeting on the first guy Ed Bilat : 34:32 with using Ai. Yes. Okay, perfect. So we'll make sure we'll include your information. So conduct, I'll Lucentis. So I'm thrilled to have you on the show, so thank you so much for the great ideas. I think it was a lot of golden nuggets here. So again, thank you for coming to the show. So happy to have you here, Bill Ball: 34:51 and this was absolutely a delight and my pleasure and really appreciate the content, the direction of the conversation, and the questions. Hopefully, somebody at least amused by it. Sahir : 35:01 Thank you so much. Bye. Thank you. Thank you. That does it for this episode of storytelling for sale. You'll find show notes and links on our web page, storytelling sales.com you can subscribe to the podcast on Itunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening.…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

1
e008- "The Art of Storytelling is the Art of Communicating"| Ed Bilat with Steve Benson, CEO of Badger Maps 27:57

6 years ago27:57

27:57

Steven Benson is the Founder and CEO of Badger Maps, the #1 route planner for field salespeople. After receiving his MBA from Stanford, Steve’s career has been in field sales with companies like IBM, Autonomy, and Google – becoming Google Enterprise’s Top Performing Salesperson in the World in 2009. In 2012 Steve founded Badger Maps to help field salespeople be more successful. He has also been named one of the Top 40 Most Inspiring Leaders in Sales Lead Management. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: Inspiration story of Jason Lemkin -"The Godfather of SaaS" model All-In-One: Steve's biggest success and failure How to use Storytelling techniques to overcome Sales objections SHOW NOTES [00:11] Intro [01:09] Welcome Steve [01:31] Business success stories that inspire him [01:40] Jason Lemkin : creating SaaStr [04:00] GPS analogy [04:50] Sales experience [05:20] How Steve got into sales [06:45] IBM training program [07:20] Sales roles at Google [08:10] Challenges faced while switching career path [09:01] Failures [09:20] Badger maps [09:50] Lacking vision [10:07] Choice of Technology industry [10:45] Dynamic nature of the technology industry [12:34] Competing in software/app world [13:37] Stories that excite his customers [13:44] Application of Badger maps in sales [14:38] Field sales [18:05] Being efficient with time [19:00] Having success stories with statistical details [20:05] Leadership circle [21:25] Identify a problem and find a solution [22:00] Objection handling [23:20] Challenges facing today’s sales leaders [25:21] The art of storytelling [26:17] Contact info [27:40] Outro SHOW TRANSCRIPT There's so much information and so much to do and so little time today in a way that there hasn't been before, and I think it takes people's focus off things. It makes it harder to accomplish things.Speaker 2: 00:14 This is the storytelling for sales podcast, a show about leveraging the power of storytelling to ignite your sales performance and grow your business.Ed Bilat: 00:25 Hello, this is Ed Bilat, we have a very cool guest for you today. Steve Benson, the founder, and CEO of Badger maps, the number one route planner for field salespeople joining us today after receiving his MBA from Stanford. Steve's career has been in the field sales with companies like IBM, our autonomy, and Google. And actually, he became Google's enterprise top performing salesperson in the world in 2009. In 2012 Steve founded Badger maps to help field salespeople to be more successful. Steve has been named one of the top 40 most inspiring leaders in sales lead management. Steve Benson, welcome to the show.Steve Benson: 01:11 Hey Ed, thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here.Ed Bilat: 01:13 Oh, absolutely. I can't tell you how thrilled I am to have you on the show! I listen to your podcast and I watch your videos all the time, so I can't wait to hear your story all the way from San Francisco. But before we do this, let me ask you a traditional question, which is “what business success story inspires you and why?”Steve Benson: 01:35 Well, um, you know, I guess one of my big inspirations, uh, running Badger is Jason Lemkin. I'm not sure if you're familiar with him, but he's the guy that started EchoSign, which is kind of very select DocuSign if you're familiar with that company.Ed Bilat: 01:50 Oh yeah. Yeah. We use DocuSign all the time.Steve Benson: 01:53 Okay. He started EchoSign, which, uh, is a very similar product I guess, but they sold it. They didn't take it public as DocuSign did. They sold earlier too. Adobe, he was one of the early people that made a SAAS business and built it up from scratch and took it all the way to a very nice exit. That's what he's first known for. But then after that he started just writing blogs and kind of communicating with the world of people that start software businesses and just writing down and created some really great thoughts and content around how to do every element of running a software company like his challenges that he faced, ways he'd overcome things, and he talked to other people about how they were overcoming things in very clear, simple explanations. Yeah, two-page articles would create vast value if, from my perspective, they taught me a ton of things, and that content strategy then grew into now a huge business that's called SaaStr. Yeah, when it was just all started, he wasn't even monetizing in the beginning. He was just kind of writing about his experiences and be like, Hey, I know a lot about this and I'm just going to share my thoughts. He's a really humble guy, a really inspirational guy for me. The company that I run is based on ideas that I learned from him, Ed Bilat: 03:11 So this was a blueprint for SAAS companies with no expectations to monetize this whatsoever and it turned out into something really, really big.Steve Benson: 03:19 Right, which works out sometimes. I don't actually know if he had the plan to build the whole SaaStr Fund staying on top of what he was starting off with. I actually suspect he just had a blog and was creating content and then so many people were following it. He was like, oh, I should have a conference. I should. All of them. They do it now. But really it just started out creating great content for what ultimately came to his user software executives.Ed Bilat: 03:49 We're gonna circle back to that. Let's turn the spotlight on you. Now our podcast listeners know, and I think today this will be particularly relevant. I like to use the GPS analogy. Then I'm, you know, you and my guests, right? You are in this world. I know Badger maps is for sure using GPS and, as you know, in order for the application to locate you, you need at least three towers. So each tower makes a circle, triangulation technique, and it'd been able to pinpoint yourself or precisely. So then I looked at your awesome experience. I see those three circles, right? I see the sales circle, right? I see the true passion for technology in this tree, which is your circle two. And I also see your leadership drive, which is circle number three. So let's talk about all three of them. Shall We?Steve Benson: 04:48 Sounds great.Ed Bilat: 04:49 All right, excellent. Circle one is sales experience. I look in, you've been in sales roles for many, many years. IBM, HP, Google, and currently you are founder and CEO of Badger maps and which is very unusual for a CEO. You actually host your own podcast outside of sales talk, which I think is awesome, but not many CEOs are actually doing this. And look, not many CEOs actually record sales training videos for their reps. And you do. So how did you even get into the sales world?Steve Benson: 05:22 Well, you know, originally it was because of a friend slash mentor of mine. I was in business school at Stanford looking at a bunch of more traditional roles for students coming out of business school types of things that most of them do, you know, consulting and finance, jobs like that. And I was looking at them and interviewing with them and kind of exploring the different roles that are there's, you know, tried two years away from graduation, still figuring out, you know what? Early in my time there and trying to figure out what path I would take, this guy I know it was a friend and a mentor was like, you know, you could be a consultant and he had been a consultant before. He was like, you should be a consultant in finance. We can do any of these things, but ask yourself, “are you going to be the best guy in the room? Best guy or girl in the room at this job?” And because I don't think you'll be the best finance person, I don't think you'd be the best consultant. You might go into sales and you might be the best salesperson in the room and that's kind of a natural fit for you. And everyone always focuses on showing up their weaknesses. But really in a career, you kind of want to play to your strengths.Steve Benson: 06:32 I think your strength might be the interpersonal side, the leadership side, the sales side of the business. I was like, oh, that really makes a ton of sense to me.Ed Bilat: 06:43 Okay.Steve Benson: 06:44 So I started looking at the jobs of that nature and I ended up entering IBM that has this program where they, uh, which is like a year-long training program.Ed Bilat: 06:54 Yes. Steve Benson: 06:55 Pretty cool. It was like, so right after business school I went into a year-long sales training program and they're kind of grooming people to be at their company for the long term, I think is what they're looking for. And they stay, invest a ton up front trying to make you a great salesperson. I didn't end up staying there after the year was over. I ended up, uh, with a software company called Autonomy, which subsequently was purchased by HP. And then I ended up, uh, moving into a sales role at Google because they're kind of on the cutting edge of SAAS. I'd seen some SAAS that, so software as a service to shift to doing software on the cloud as opposed to traditional software. It's downloaded or solo CD, it changes the whole business model and stuff. And I, and I saw that at Autonomy a bit. We were dabbling in that model. Okay. One of the companies leading the space, Salesforce, Workday, a few others, but a Salesforce is where Google is in a really great job at that point. And so I went to them and it was kind of a part of growing very early SAAS businesses out. And so I was there for years and then I started Badger.Ed Bilat: 08:02 And what was a major challenge early on like for sales specifically when you were rolling through the training at IBM? Steve Benson: 08:18 Well, I think some of the biggest shots, it's really not. It's been taught to you before like everyone has the natural sales abilities that you learned from when you're a small kid, you try to sell your mom on buying you some sugar. But you learned to sell and learning to influence and learn to educate others. I was fairly highly educated, but I hadn't been educated in this at all. I felt like it was a natural fit for me, but that being said, I had to kind of build all these skills from the ground up and the types of things that really differentiate great salesperson from other types of business leadership.Ed Bilat: 08:59 Sales suddenly going to be challenging and can be stressful. Do you have a favorite failure of yours? Like, anything will happen, which was a good lesson in the retrospective?Steve Benson: 09:14 Yeah, I'd say the biggest failure of my biggest successes, the company that I run now,Ed Bilat: 09:22 I love it.Steve Benson: 09:25 Long term, it was successful, but in the short term there were a million failures that I overcame building the business. I'd say that one of my biggest failures was not realizing how long and hard it was to get a business of this nature off the ground and going. Everything took three times longer than I thought it would and was three times harder than I thought it would be. The failure there is, I mismanaged how long and difficult things would be and so that, that causes all kinds of problems. But then long term it did end up being a successful company here, but it was very good. But harder to get going than I thought it would have been. And that was definitely a failure of oversight.Ed Bilat: 10:06 Let's talk about the Second circle: The technology this is your passion and commitments. Again, IBM, Google, HP and you stayed with technology for many years and yet your undergraduate degree is actually in geography. Right?Steve Benson: 10:31 I was actually looking at a bunch of industries that would be interesting. I figured out, oh, I shouldn't be on the sales side of things. There were other industries that I was also looking at the reason. So that to me was because of how fast it's changing and how dynamic it is and how it's compared to most industries. It's just having an outsized impact on the world. That's changing how things are done in business and in people's lives all the time. I mean, if you think about even 15 years ago, people didn't have cell phones or they had very basic, wasn't even have cell phones. People are just living differently. Technology has changed, business has changed people's lives a ton in the last 15 years, and it's happening really fast and quick change tends to create opportunity, my opportunity to disrupt incumbents and it's just exciting and interesting. So I think, yeah, that's how I ended up in technology, right? It's less that I've always been interested in speeds and feeds the computers or something, but more that I'm interested in the change that technology enables, and I'm interested in being a part of exciting, dynamic things.Ed Bilat: 11:42 Uber is The largest Taxi Company in the world and they do not own any taxis. That's right. Yeah. The largest media company in the world does not write any content. I am talking about Facebook. Hospitality provider does not only new hotels, right? So like 10 years ago, if you would tell somebody, let it, a business like that would exist. They will just laugh at you saying like this is not possible. it's just physically not possible. But that didn't happen. So specifically for the mobile APP World that isn't it like really hard to compete in this space today?Steve Benson: 12:23 Yes. The bar for creating new technology is relatively low today. 16 year old can code up an APP but to build enterprise-class software is very hard if you're building something that a business is going to be using for business critical things. And if you're making that kind of application, there's a lot to it and you've gotta be able to integrate with their existing systems. You've got to be able to work perfectly solve their problems. There are a lot of apps, there are a million flashlight apps and those are easy to build, right? There are far fewer companies that are building applications successfully and software successfully that's used in business. There's a lot more today than, there used to be. There's got to be 5,000 companies that make marketing technology and 5,080 sales technology. But really it's hard to compete because there is so much going on and changes so fast. But it's easy in that if you solve a key problem that a large group of people has, you can really create a lot of value with technology very quickly. And so even if it's hard to compete and you've gotta be on your game and you can unlock a ton of value of people and therefore create a great business.Ed Bilat: 13:36 So for your customers, like what type of stories excites them? , what do they do with the application?Steve Benson: 13:44 What Badger does is we have an application for field sales teams. We take their territories, their customers, and we put them on a map for them. We allowed them to use our tools to figure out which customers they should focus on. We give them the capability to build routes and schedule out their time when they're in the field and meeting with customers, we provide them with new leads. So we showed them where businesses are, so if you want to make this a real example, think about a company that sells something to dentists and their 800,000 dentists or whatever in America. And this company's goal is to let all these dentists know, hey, we have a cool new way of cleaning people a little bit better. We have a new thing that does that. Exactly. And then they already have a, a very large sales team. That's their business, right? So that's a field sales is a sale that occurs in the fields, right? You could also just sell it online. I mean, what if you were a new dental company and you just, you created a really nice website, put your new tool online. Maybe no dentist would show up and look at your finding new tools. So how would you get them to do it while you send out field salespeopleSteve Benson: 14:51 could also use inside sales where you're calling them on the phone, but with certain types of buyers, the best way to get in front of them is by actually going and meeting with them and explaining why your new way of doing something is better or why what you have is this and that they should start using instead of something else. It could be selling wine to restaurants or something, you know, it could be medical devices to doctors or pharmaceutical drugs, pharmaceuticals are sold this way. But the point is that we help that kind of salesperson who goes and meets their customers face to face, uh, we helped them do a whole bunch of things and they're a very mobile group of people. Obviously, they're out in the field and so our software works on, it's an application on their phone. It also works in their computer. We enabled them to do a bunch of things. We just solve a bunch of problems that they face.Ed Bilat: 15:44 They would drive us to downtown and just dump final seven people on the street. Right. Then you have three streets that way and the fourth streets that way. And um, you know, I would take the elevator to the top of the building and then be just walking down the stairs until securities you will run out, uh, cell phones. Yeah. So it was basically finding anybody who would be interested in cellular technology, in the wireless. Right. And remember, once you have an appointments, we'll always do a T- call means that you go to the left, you go to the right and you go to the back of the business, which you just visited and say like, Hey, I was just talking JNK right next door to you. So would you be interested in this as well? Right? So like, I'm sure your software is way smarter, uh right now. So, because that was like very, very basic instincts and they actually based a lot on psychology. How, how would they feel after that appointment? Right. As if it wasn't like stressful. If they told me to go, I would be very hesitant to go to another location, you know, I would need a cup of coffee or lunch.Steve Benson: 16:57 . Most of the people that we sell cell phones, especially tricky because everybody could use those. It's very hard to filter, but like if you're selling heart stents to cardiologists, that's much more specific. Or if you're selling, you know, organic beer to organic restaurants are, and Vegan restaurants, that's much more specific. Our customers tend to be not trying to sell something to everyone, but they're selling a specific high-value thing to specific people. And so it's more about, okay, I come up with my territory, there are 800,000 dentists in the country, but my territory is just, you know, Manhattan north of you know this street. And so there are 500 dentists, this area, those are the 500 that I've got to talk to. Or they'll cover like western Kansas or something and there are 500 dentists there. And so they cover a specific group of people in a specific area.Steve Benson: 18:02 So a lot of it is about focus and knowing when to follow up with them... when it's a good time setting meetings and then being efficient with your time to kind of create value for those customers and not, not just kind of walk in and not many of our customers are kind of that early in the sales process where they're just kind of walking in and saying hi. Sometimes we see that though we do see that some, but it's especially in my experience, a hard job. If you're selling something that kind of anyone can buy like water's hard or cell phones or anything, insurance, business insurance that every business could buy. So it's like if you walk up and down Main Street USA and every single company on the street could buy your thing. It's nice because you have lots of customers, but it's also harder because you have lots of prospective customers,Steve Benson: 18:52 Well, you're having a great story that communicates how you help your customers is one of the most important things that you can do. People remember stories. You want to have those success stories about your customers. Like this customer got 50% more meetings, you know, a month because they started being organized with our product. This customer was able to sell 20% more because of the focus they were able to use in the new leads they were able to get with our product. A key thing is having statistics in your stories if you're in the business like have real numbers and the real people if I can tell another dental company that they know and compete with is using our product. I use them, she has an example because they have a bunch of customers there. It's uh, we got our first big customer there a long time ago, but then I was able to go and tell that story to other companies in that industry that don't necessarily sell the same exact thing as them, but also sell things to dentists or doctors. If you can give a very specific example of a specific company unlocking a ton of value because of your product or service. That's really one of the keys to sales is having that story.Ed Bilat: 20:06 So let's talk about the last circle. The Leadership circle, cause obviously is the CEO of the company. All right, so you're not just a leader, you also coach and the teammate. You transition to that role and being the leader. What stories come to mind that actually helps you grow as a leader?Steve Benson: 20:26 I think great leadership. It's easier for most people that understand that great athletic coach versus a crappy, crappy athletic coach. We'll tell their basketball team, for example, you got to score more points. That's not being a good coach to yell at you and say you guys aren't scoring enough points. You've got to score more points, more baskets. A great coach is someone who is able to pull a player aside and say, Hey, I noticed on your crossover dribble on your left hand that you're leading with your foot like this. If we were to switch it to leading with your foot like this, you'd get an extra half step on the defender and that would allow you to get around them and make the layup. Here's a drill that you can practice, you know, 20 times tomorrow and really engrain doing it this way instead of that way and you'll be able to feel it. That extra step that you're going to be able to get a great coach identifies problems like that and then brings a solution and helps the person learn and uplevel their game. And that's really what I try to do. I don't just set goals and say, hey, I want know numbers to increase x percent by x date. I try to work with all the different teams and have ideas with them and listened to them and figure out where they can get that extra half step.Ed Bilat: 22:01 When you take a specific objection when the customer says I don't have any money, like how do you deal with this? Like do you just freeze? When do you ignore it? What do you do? Because objections will come like whether we like it or not with objections will come and if you're not prepared, well guess what? Like it was going to be very awkward.Steve Benson: 22:23 Right, exactly. Yeah. I have a whole series of videos on sales skills and they just, if they're available for free on Youtube, Youtube Channel, Badger maps, it's the sales tips and tricks playlist and there's like 10 videos. They're all 10 minutes long or so, so you can, we'll get there. I'm pretty fast, but it's, it covers things like objection handling. I think we have three or four videos on that and that's everything from the way you should anticipate objections, the different types of objections you're going to run into and how to head them off and how to handle them and uh, if you're interested in that sort of thing.Steve Benson: 23:24 I think the biggest challenge is what a noisy world. It's everyone's so busy, you know, their attention being told a million different directions and it makes it harder to get things done. Makes it hard to take the next steps, getting people's attention right originally and letting them know, hey, I do x, Y, z. It creates value for people like you by doing B. C is that interesting to you? To learn more about or and getting them aware that you are a solution like you even exists is one problem. Because people have so much going on, and this is for a lot of reasons. I mean, one we productivity per employee is, has raised a ton over the last 30 years. Pay hasn't really grown for a, for most people that productivity has. And so we're basically, we're doing a lot more with less. That makes people a lot busier. I do also blend technology, right? The frantic nature of today's world. 17 hoses of information coming at you. Like I remember when I was a kid, my dad, you'd get the Chicago Tribune and read it. That was like his one hose of information. But if you, if you look at, you know, someone today, they have three social media sites and you know, 14 news aggregators and you have TV and Netflix and their phone blowing up, you know, there are eight communication applications on my phone, each one can have messages flowing into it from different types of things. And Yeah, I think it makes it a very noisy world. And I think that's the biggest challenge for selling to new people. I guess the biggest challenge to leading a team is that they're all attracted. I think it's the, it's the, it's the hardest thing about managing yourself is that you're distracted. There's so much information and so much to do and so little time today in a way that there hasn't been before. And I think it takes people's focus off things and makes it harder to accomplish things. You really have to actively combat that.Steve Benson: 25:24 The Art of storytelling is the art of communicating with whoever you want to communicate with. Doing it through stories is doing it with examples. It's about connecting to people, to connecting to the person that you're trying to communicate with. Giving rich examples, whether it's yourself or people like them, it just makes the message that you're trying to get across through the story a lot more effective and a lot stickier in people's minds. And so that's what the art of storytelling is to me. It's really the art of great communication. And I think that in general, in the modern world with low attention spans and all the distractions of the world, it's harder to have truly great communication.Ed Bilat: 26:16 I appreciate your time. So for our listeners, what's the best way to connect with you over your brand?Steve Benson: 26:21 Um, best way to get ahold of me for your listeners, probably Linkedin search, Steve Benson at Badger I'll come right up. My podcast is outside sales talk and you've got to listen to that. If you were in hearing new sales strategies and learning new things about how to be a great salesperson, it's less me talking and more, I been on best sales leaders from around the world, thought leaders and that sort of, those sorts of people.New Speaker: 26:53 We'll make sure to include all those links on sources. Um, again, thank you so much for coming to the show, is an absolute pleasure. Steve Benson: 27:00 Yeah, I think what I can offer your listeners is, if they are interested in sales, you get in touch with Badge.r Just let people know that you, that you heard about podcasts here, we'll give you two months free of Badger. So if you're in sales and you want to check it out, that's a reward for listening to all my, uh, my blathering here.Steve Benson: 27:38 Thanks for having me, Ed!…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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e006- "How does it feel to be coached by a Billionaire?"| Ed Bilat with Matt Bramson, Chief Growth Officer of RingByName 27:46

6 years ago27:46

27:46

Matt Bramson is the Chief Growth Officer of RingByName, the leading integrated enterprise telecom, and customer relationship management service. In that role, he is responsible for leading the company’s sales, marketing, and business development. He has more than 20 years of experience in technology sales, sales management, strategy, and corporate development. Prior to joining RingByName he led business development for XO Communications and reported directly to legendary financier Carl Icahn. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: What type of Stories you should tell your clients How to use storytelling to build relationships and trust How Matt got hand-picked to work directly with a billionaire investor Carl Icahn [00:23] Introduction [01:53] Welcome Matt [02:08] Business success stories that inspire and why [02:16] Businesses that grow and innovate [02:23] Southwest airlines [03:26] A proven model [04:33] Sales and marketing experience [04:52] Sales and partnership negotiations [04:57] How he got into sales [05:11] Selling encyclopedia [06:42] Understanding the customer’s situation [07:33] Typical mistakes people make in sales [07:45] Lack of understanding of customer’s goals and interest [09:02] How to evaluate the customer [10:33] The technology industry [10:50] Cloud service company [15:04] Type of stories to tell [16:31] Acknowledge your failure [16:58] Fear [17:54] Leadership circle [18:21] Working with a billionaire? [20:16] Expressing an opinion [21:39] Challenges facing today’s sales leaders [22:31] Indirect sales channel [23:13] Marketing versus sales [25:11] The art of storytelling [26:40] Contact information…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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Episode #005-Building a new kind of Business| Ed Bilat and ItsPayd CEO Ken Green 27:18

7 years ago27:18

27:18

Building a new kind of Business Ed Bilat and ItsPayd CEO Ken Green on finding your own story. Ken Green is founder & CEO of ItsPayd, an automated payment platform utilizing cutting-edge technologies to give control back to a company’s billing processes as well as providing users a peace of mind knowing their invoices are confidential and affordable. Prior to ItsPayd, Ken was CEO of a commercial collection agency and has over 20 years of executive leadership experience. With his innovative and entrepreneurial spirit, he stays ahead of various industry needs providing services to improve efficiency while keeping the end user in mind. WHAT YOU’LL LEARN ABOUT IN THIS EPISODE: · How Ken decided on his 2015 goal for building a new kind of business in the most conservative industry of all: The Collection Industry · How the business success story of Uber Inspired Ken in the early days · What challenges are facing many of today’s sales leaders · How Ken applied the Art of Storytelling for his company growth · The importance of setting clear revenue targets…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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e005- " How to use Storytelling to build relationships and trust".| Ed Bilat with Bill Jensen, Group Vice President at Mediacom Communication 25:05

7 years ago25:05

25:05

As the leader for 500+ great employees, Bill Jensen always strives to be a difference-maker for the people who work with him at Mediacom. He enjoys developing managers and supervisors in reaching their full potential as well as creating a true TEAM atmosphere in administrative as well as field operations. Bill focuses on excellence and attention to detail as well as "doing it right the first time. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: How to use storytelling to build relationships and trust How to formulate a Multibillion-dollar investment strategy? How Bill comes up with Stories that excite his customers and partners History of a cable industry How Sales Leaders Sell Can you use Storytelling to motivate people? The mindset you need to compete today The importance of preparing your stories ahead of time Why there is a shortage of qualified applicants? What does the Art of Storytelling mean to Bill? SHOW NOTES [00:07] Introduction [01:26] Welcome Bill [01:49] Business stories that inspire him [02:06] Multi-billion dollar investment strategy [03:32] Cable industry [04:12] How Bill got into the cable industry [06:16] Local access television studio [07:13] High-speed data and video-on-demand [07:20] Fierce Competition in the cable industry [08:35] 18-inch dishes [08:49] Telephone companies [09:47] Video, high-speed internet, telephony [10:08] Stories that excite his customers and partners [13:20] Why manage people? [13:28] The role his father played [13:57] Leadership opportunities [14:54] Responsibility, patience, and experience [15:20] How leaders sell [15:41] Selling everyday [16:18] Motivating people [17:32] Leading and teaching by example [20:00] Preparing ahead of time [20:17] Challenges facing today’s leaders [20:36] Shortage of qualified applicants [21:51] The necessary skills for graduates and applicants [23:27] The art of storytelling [23:37] Inter-personal communication…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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e004- ” When you sell it is not about you, it is about them". | Ed Bilat with Chad Heath, VP / GM of Kegstar US 28:27

7 years ago28:27

28:27

Chad Heath is the VP / GM of Kegstar US. Kegstar is a leader in the keg rental space and has been in operation in Australia since 2012. Prior to Kegstar, Chad was the Sr. Director of Stone Distributing. After joining the team in 2008, he has helped create exponential growth for Stone and more than 30 supplier brands sold throughout Southern California, taking the amount distributed from 350,000 case equivalents to roughly 4+ million in 2016. Chad is also an instructor at San Diego State University where he teaches "The Business of Craft Beer". WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: How to beat the odds in today’s competitive market How to use storytelling to build relationships and trust How to use the power of the internet in the craft beer space How Chad got into sales Why the craft beer industry? And why it is exploding? The mindset you need to compete today Why today’s sales leaders need to be bold and brave What does the Art of Storytelling mean to Chad? And why it is so important today? SHOW NOTES [00:05] Introduction [00:42] Welcome Chad [00:57] Type of business stories that inspires him [01:01] Beating the odds in today’s market [02:30] Changes in marketplace and customer dynamics [03:00] Chad’s biography [04:17] Why sales? [05:52] Chad’s crafty tactics in sales and business development. [06:26] Roadblocks for starters in sales [06:40] Chad’s true passion [09:42] Ways customers benefit from Kegstar’s innovative technology [10:15] Beer industry knowledge [10:48] How Chad got into the beer industry [14:18] The Past sales strategy [15:25] The Present sales strategy [16:25] Building relationships and trust [17:11] How Craft Breweries utilize the power of the internet [18:45] The mindset you need to get into beer industry marketing [20:43] How he got into teaching and combines it with a full-time job [24:27] Challenges facing today’s business owners [24:50] Effective storytelling and goalkeeping [25:35] The Art of Storytelling [27:07] Upcoming events and contact information WAYS TO CONTACT Chad: LinkedIn…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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e003- ” Logic and data can only take you so far, Story is where we really connect” | Ed Bilat with Christy Soukhamneut, SVP, National Sales Performance at Certainty Home Loans 24:54

7 years ago24:54

24:54

Christy Soukhamneut is a 20+ year veteran of the mortgage industry who is dedicated to turning possibility into reality. A gifted strategic thinker, she knows that you must cut through the clutter, clearly articulate the vision, and then rally support at the street level. Christy accomplishes this by helping loan officers build their unique selling propositions around their individual strengths and then holds them accountable for achieving their dreams. Everything she does is evaluated against these three bars: Will it make your life easier? Will it help you & your team be more productive? Will it help you grow your business? WHAT YOU’LL LEARN ABOUT IN THIS EPISODE: How one tragic phone call changed her life Christy’s Grandmother’s amazing story How she started her first job as the President of a mortgage company at the age of 20 How Christy got into sales What to do to get people to take you seriously Why the financial industry and why mortgages? How people make the $100 decision How to help salespeople see something within themselves that is just below the surface Why today’s sales leaders need to be bold and brave What does the Art of Storytelling mean to Christy and why Empathy is so important. SHOW NOTES [00:15] Introduction [01:02] Welcome Christy! [01:15] Type of business stories that inspire [01:22] Resilience in the face of adversity – her Grandmother’s amazing story [04:06] Commodity exchange [07:32] Standardized tests [07:58] It’s never about “do you have enough information?” [09:20] How Christy got into sales [10:31] Challenges she faced early on in her career. [10:52] Getting people to take her seriously [11:24] Taking it slowly and learning from others [12:44] Why the financial industry and why mortgages? [14:06] Type of stories that excite her customers [14:32] Working with first time home buyers [15:09] How we make decisions [17:41] Starting her first company at the age of twenty [17:51] Helping people see things in themselves [18:41] The connection between yoga class and sales class [20:05] Challenges facing sales leaders today [20:18] Listening to others and having empathy [21:27] Encouraging others [22:30] The Art of Storytelling [23:22] Connecting on an emotional level [23:43] Contact informationHow one tragic phone call changed her life WAYS TO CONTACT Christy: You can find her being social on: Twitter Facebook LinkedIn…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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e002- " Can AI drive intimacy with Customers?" | Ed Bilat with Russell Scherwin, Chief Marketing Officer at IBM Watson Commerce 28:51

7 years ago28:51

28:51

Leading commerce strategy, sales, marketing, and consulting teams for over 20 years, Russell has worked with hundreds of organizations in shaping go-to-market strategies and execution plans. With a passion for technology’s socio-economic impact, Russell is known for expertly fusing economics, strategy, humor, and leadership into a deeply relevant, and entertaining message. WHAT YOU’LL LEARN ABOUT IN THIS EPISODE: How Russell made the unlikely move from software engineer into sales Why all sales are transitioning into the Consulting mode Why Maximizing outcome while Minimizing effort is the only thing that matters How can you use AI to drive intimacy with Customers? How does storytelling help drive sales in digital commerce Why did Carhartt’s sales (a U.S.-based apparel company founded in 1889) skyrocket after “Interstellar” movie release What is the Game Changer for online selling today? What challenges are facing many of today’s sales leaders What does the Art of Storytelling mean to Russell Scherwin? SHOW NOTES [00:31] Intro and Our Guest’s profile [01:28] Welcome Russell Scherwin [01:35] GPS analogy [02:22] Vast sales experience [04:28] Software Engineer going into Sales? [05:04] Personal motivation [05:08] Transitioning to the Consulting model [06:05] Mistakes people make in sales [06:28] Qualification and time management [09:23] Maximizing outcome while Minimizing effort [09:41] Learning to depend on other people [09:59] How to build great teams [10:40] Why the Technology industry? [11:38] Why AI? [12:34] Using AI to drive intimacy with Customers [17:19] Sequencing products with the consumer’s want [17:26] How AI functions in the modern day commerce space [19:01] How Storytelling helps sales [22:20] Leadership circle [22:45] Learning from others [23:08] “Trust but Verify” [23:22] How to Hire great people [23:46] Factors that make up an A-player [24:54] Suit profile to the type of market [26:11] Intellectual curiosity [25:59] What does the Art of Storytelling mean to Russell? [27:54] Contact information [28:30] Outro WAYS TO CONTACT RUSSELL: IBM Website LinkedIn…

Storytelling for Sales Podcast

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e001- " Stop Selling and Start Listening "|Ed Bilat with Duncan Bureau, President at Air Canada Rouge 23:00

7 years ago23:00