From Married to Divorced to Married with Kids: Rebekah Ward, Age 44

I Am This Age

Today Rebekah Ward talks all about her past relationships, how religion influenced them, and how she moved through divorce to a healthy, loving marriage with two kids in her early 40’s. Rebekah is hilarious, open, and full of personal insight. My goodness do I love this episode. You will laugh and cry (maybe not cry but you will laugh) and you will absolutely learn something about what loving relationships really look like. Enjoy today’s change story!

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Transcript:

Here's the thing. In my twenties and my thirties, I could not have been in the kind of romantic relationship I am in now. I couldn't because I hadn't yet done the work on myself that is required to be in that kind of relationship. I wanted to feel a deep connection with another human, and I wasn't going to settle for anything else, no matter how loud my biological clock ticked.

But I also had no idea how to get that. I wanted to feel seen by a partner in such an intimate way that all my fears of being misunderstood by the rest of the world would fall away with the knowing that this one person whom I loved and respected and let's be honest, wanted to have sex with all the time, saw me for exactly me, and still wanted to have sex with me.

It took years of learning and growing and experiencing disappointing relationships, and then years more of taking a very hard look in the mirror and recognizing and admitting the things about myself I wasn't particularly proud of, and then more years of untangling why I was doing those things.

Figuring out why I really wanted this deep connection, unlearning unproductive habits, teaching myself new ways to be, and then committing to being those things. Now I get to continue learning and growing, but I get to do it in the kind of relationship I always wanted. So no, I couldn't have had this back then.

I wasn't ready yet. But at 44, I am ready and I have it because I've lived those experiences and with every experience I learned more about the person I want to be, the kind of person I want to be in relationship with. And maybe most importantly, the belief that I am a worthy of the deep connection I always dreamed of.

And if I learned anything from today's guess, it's that you have to believe in your worthiness enough to risk losing something great in order to gain what you most desire.

Welcome back to another episode of I Am This Age a podcast proving it's never too late. You're never too old, so go do that thing you're always talking about. I'm Molly Cider, your host. And today's guest is Rebecca Ward, and we go deep into relationships, self-discovery, and what love really looks like. We talk extensively about how her experiences in and out of relationships in her twenties and thirties prepared her for getting married to her current husband just before her 39th birthday, and for having two kids in her forties.

Rebecca is a blast. There's definitely some swearing in this episode. We laugh a lot and we laugh loudly, but mostly there's so much honesty and self-discovery, and I think it just might be one of my favorite episodes so far. So please enjoy Rebecca Ward.

My name is Rebecca Ward. I am 44. I am a an artist. I act and direct and write. I am a wife and a mother of two children, a four year old and a one year old, and I am tired. So, and it is almost eight o'clock at night. Almost eight, which used to be when I would go out. It's just a perpetual, uh, exhaustion. But it'll pass.

It'll pass. Yeah. Today we're gonna talk about love and relationships, how to get there. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I, the long and windy road, the long and windy road, , the never ending, long and windy road. You had two big relationships as a young adult. The first was, um, at 19 years old when you were engaged to a man who was 31.

Mm-hmm. . He was a member of a Christian organization that came to your high school, and that's how you met. Yes. , your community, Um, being small, religious. Mm-hmm. and in your words, undereducated. I would say so. Okay. Or underexposed under underexposed. Mm-hmm. . Okay. That's, that's a, a better, nicer way. Yeah. Um, so underexposed, um, they were very supportive of your relationship.

Mm-hmm. , you were considered a rockstar couple , you were studying to be a missionary. Um, but you also had this deep urge to travel and he did not. So eventually you broke off the engagement after moving away to college, which was devastating to your relationship with your friends and your family back at home.

You did eventually, um, rectify that family. Yeah. With my family and Yeah, and the friend and, and, and the friends I stayed close to, you know. Oh, good. Okay. Yeah. And your second relationship was with a teacher at your college, . Um, he was two years older than you

It's not, Look, we've all got these stories and you have to get through it in order to get to the place. Um, but yeah. This one, this one was, um, two years older than you. Yeah. You shared a love of theater. Mm-hmm. . He wasn't religious and you said he did things like drink martinis, , and listen to Led Zeppelin and vinyl, which I just love those details.

Um, and for that, you found him fascinating. And the two of you got married. Mm-hmm. . And you were married for 10 years. Yes. You went through some hard life moments together. Mm-hmm. , you did some personal growth work. Mm-hmm. . And as you began to realize who each of you were as individuals, you also understood that you were no longer a fit for each other and you left that marriage.

Yeah, I would say. That is the summation post leaving. I don't know that. I could have articulated it that clearly when I was leaving. I very much loved him. Uh, but we were really ill suited toward one another. Um, and we had gotten engaged so quickly after dating for five months. Had we spent more time in relationship together before we decided to spend eternity together, , then maybe we would've figured that out, um, before we, uh, you know, took vows.

But we didn't, and we were young. And I think that in the end, we, we both have grown into much healthier, happier people outside of a marriage relationship with one. . And so you, you left the marriage and you were in your early thirties, correct? Yeah. It was just still a baby. Mm-hmm. . Um, and so the following , the following like six or so years, was you sort of getting to play, you got your first apartment by yourself, you dated, you traveled, you did plays, you made friends, you went to therapy,

Yes. Lots of that. You had an explosion of self-discovery mm-hmm. . And, um, you, you said people were noticing that you were changing. Yes. Can you tell the story about what did the casting doctors say to you? Um, so I had been seen in this casting office in Chicago, you know, for several years while I was married.

And then for, I don't know, the first several months post separation. . I had gone in for some auditions and after one of those auditions, the casting associate, not the director of the whole office, but an associate pulled me aside and said, Hey, I, I wanted to just ask you what's going on Is something different?

You've changed, You're just, And I was like, Well, you know, I, I got divorced. And he was like, I wondered your name wasn't the same, you know? And I was like, Yeah. And . And I also said, I'm having a lot of sex. And he was like, Great . Yeah. Um, but he just said that I was happier and lighter. And, um, it's, it sounds to me like you had this very clear intention at that time to.

Really figure out what you, what your values were. Mm. Um, and you, you said you started to do this by saying yes to everything. Yeah. And I find it, um, I find it really interesting because you came from this like tiny religious, conservative Yeah. Conservative community. Mm-hmm. with lots of rules, that are based on no

Lots of nos. Lots of nos. And all of a sudden you're saying lots of yeses. You know, the world was literally your oyster and you were, it was like you were going to experience everything and then just narrow it down from there. Mm-hmm. , you were having like a complete reboot. I, I, it did feel that way and in some ways, to be honest, Yes.

Reboot, but also I think it was a returning to my original self. Um, I think that my whole life, even when I was a little kid, I gravitated toward. The edges of things. Um, the edges. What does that mean? The people who were on the edge, the people who were maybe not the most popular. I I, I was generally friends with most people, but I was always intrigued by people who were pushing boundaries.

But that does not garner you favor in the Southern methods denomination, um, or as a pastor's wife or, you know, like it's just very conservative. Fundamentalist Christianity is built on preserving the positions of the people who are in power, and they are able to maintain their power by keeping those who are not they in fear.

Uh, be it fear of eternal damnation or. Judgment or sin or whatever you wanna say. And there's a long list of shit you are not supposed to do. Even when I was little, I can recall people who smoked a cigarette or when I took ballet, people who were gay and, and they were not evil, monstrous people that, uh, my religion growing up made them out to be.

And so I think that that time in my life reboot in terms of rewriting the rules in my head of how I'm allowed to live and how I want to live. But also, uh, it was, it was a journey back to like the part of me earliest on that suspected from the get-go that there weren't as many. Delineations between people, all the different people that I met that, that it was made out to be.

Yeah. That were all pretty much the same. Yeah, we're a lot closer and, you know, gay or not gay, um, Catholic or not, Like being Catholic was horrible where I grew up in the church I grew up, they thought if you were, if you were Catholic, if you were part of a cult. And I was like, and then I grew up and I was like, what?

Like if you practiced yoga or meditation, you were, you were getting too close to the devil. Like just some really whacked out stuff. So it was a very, it was a very tiny world that they gave you in which to operate. And I never liked that. I never, never, never, never did I have had a voracious appetite always for everything that's out there.

And, and if you wanna get really like, super spiritual about it, I have. Found it to be true that the more I experience and the more people I know and the, the more things I eat and the more things I get to do well, the better. I know God anyway, cuz it's all the same. Yeah. I don't really think God and limits actually go together.

Can you give us a little snippet of what that time period look like for you,

Um, you're so good at storytelling story. Uh, ok, sure. Um, I've made it very clear that I grew up in a conservative culture that was heavily religious and patriarchal and that also meant any sexuality was completely stamped out and, and forbidden because, you know, it's a gateway to you doing all kinds of things that would take you away from the Lord, whatever.

I did wait to have sex until I got married, and my husband at the time was the only person I'd had sex with. So when that relationship was over, I absolutely was like, Well, now I know what I'm doing, . Um, which, you know, for some people, I, I imagine there's a wide range of ways that people would choose to, uh, live out that, that like time of exploration.

For me, it primarily meant like saying yes to dates and for the first time in my life, a couple, one night nightstand and . A lot of the time it, I mean, I guess what I should say is it didn't take long for me to realize, maybe it was after three or four partners that I was like, A lot of this is the same , right?

Like it's not, I'm anyb blowing experiences . Um, and I that, that in itself I was like, you know, but in particular the way I was operating for a snapshot of a moment, I was staying at this extended ta stay place where they put you up when you're an out of town actor, but you know, anybody can stay there.

It's also a hotel. And I had either gotten home that, I can't even remember what time of day it was, but, um, either from rehearsal in the afternoon or in the evening after a show, I don't recall. And I was at the desk and I don't know if I was getting mail or something and I saw a man in the lobby. Sort of standing there and then get into an elevator.

And we made eye contact and he was extremely handsome. There was this just sort of like charge, like electric charge. And I just, you know, and he got in the elevator and that was that. Um, but I finished my business, either got a pa, I don't know what it was, package or something anyway, and I went to hit the up button on the elevator and it opened and he was still in there.

So he had either come back down or, I don't know. So I, he looked at me and I looked at him and I smiled and I got in the elevator. There was no one else in the elevator and he didn't speak English and he sort of noded and said hello or something. And then he just got really close to me and then we kissed and made out in the elevator until he came Oh my God.

To his floor. I know, I know. I sound like I'm trying not to slut shame myself. Um, no, this is an amazing story. He, it was only like four floors up. We got to his floor and he kind of noded and like I said, he didn't speak English, but said, Do you wanna come in? And I, and I just said, No, I don't. I was fine and I didn't wanna do anything that I didn't feel safe with.

Like, I was like, I don't really know this person. But I didn't feel unsafe in that moment in the elevator with him. And he was very like, Okay. And said something like Bella or beautiful or something like that. And that was that. And I never saw that person again. Wow. That's exciting. It was a moment where I just remember thinking, I'm going to, I'm gonna say yes to this moment and this instinct.

And I did. And I was also really paying attention to my feelings. Uh, I want to, I feel like I should preface this like warning label. I had been spending an a solid year and a half up to that point in therapy, meditating, taking an antidepressant, uh, really working on self care and healing because when I made the decision to leave my ex-husband, I wanted to be able to trust that decision and the place from which I made it.

And so I also felt really confident post separation o of what I was exploring and what I was doing. I, I didn't feel like I was. Like rebounding or anything. It wasn't like that. It was, it was a, a very intentional journey of what makes me happy, what feels good, what doesn't feel good. I wasn't always right.

Right. Like there was a , there was a one night stand or a good guy that I went on a few dates with, and he totally ghosted me and totally got caught . And we had mutual friends. Oh, yeah. And I, I remember being 100% sort of publicly rejected and walking back to my car after the show and just breathing and thinking, Okay, okay, this is so, huh.

So this is what it's like as an adult. You know, you, you choose to operate at this level and share yourself at this level. And it does not equal commitment or relationship. And I knew that cerebrally, but that was the first. That I'd actually experienced it and, and one potential outcome of my choices. It wasn't devastating or anything like that.

It was just a, a, what's the word? Like, I was rebuffed. I was, I had very, he very clearly was like, Yeah, I'm done now. And I was like

there. And then now I've like, ok, ok. Pick myself up. And, you know, so a lot of the lessons that I feel like many people get when they're in their early to mid twenties, I wasn't having until a decade later. Yeah. Um, and I was giving myself, for the first time ever in my life, permission to be a sexual person, to follow my instincts, to make mistakes, and to do that shame and judgment.

That's amazing. Just for the record, like I feel like I was still doing that in my thirties. I definitely was through my thirties. Like I think I was Sure I was, I've had those experiences even in my early, like in my forties . Yeah. Yes. I think as long as we are trying to learn who we are, you're gonna find these things out one way or the other.

Yeah. And relationships with other people are, are our fastest teachers. Yes, they are. And also, but also like, we have to be willing to, you know, really look at ourselves and the role that we play in the relationship. Sure. And, and how we're contributing to whatever the thing is that we have experienced.

Even if it's the ghosting, like, oh, I could tell you how I contributed to it. Oh, you're gonna move here. You're gonna move here from Brooklyn. Oh, that's great. Right. . Right. So the girl who had been in a relationship for 10 years and one other relationship before that maybe was not so great at one night stand.

Right. And the thing is, is that when we're not willing to actually look at how we're contributing to these circumstances, we never learn. And I know of plenty of people who are still dealing with this in their seventies. Yes. And it's so hard. My parents, who I love deeply have an extremely dysfunctional marriage and they've been married for 48 years and, and it is a wreck.

And they've spent that much time together without, yet finding a way, um, for each of them to thrive. You know? And I don't really understand all of the things that contribute to a person's inability to move forward. I imagine that it is so specific. Um, and I know that, you know, past traumas and a mil and access to healthcare and resources, there's so many things that go into it.

Our generation, Being able to go to a therapist and or be on an antidepressant without nearly the stigma that our parents had, right? Like, that's a massive leap forward. Um, so there are lots of reasons, but you won't, you won't move forward. If you can't take responsibility for your own shit, you just won't truth, you know?

Not that it's easy to do. It is not easy. It's, it's not easy. It's just about the hardest thing, but it gets easier the more you do it. It really does. It's never easy, but it gets easier, I think. But it does get easier because the work becomes more familiar. It's not as, as scary a place as the first time you choose to be so vulnerable to show either someone else or just be honest with yourself about those, those parts of yourself that you, you're embarrassed of or that are dark or that are, you know, have been hurtful or harmful to someone else.

But then, Like anything, the more you do it, the more you practice being authentic, the less grip that it has on you and, and you begin to trust the outcome of, of that behavior. Where before it was this big, scary unknown thing and the risk was so huge. But the more you do it, the more you know ultimately what lies on the other side.

Yeah. Is where you wanna be. Yeah. And that you'll be okay. You won't die from it. And that everyone else is just as scared to do the same thing and everyone else is hiding or gripping to some similar insecurity or fear. And the more that you just face it and let it out and talk about it, the more you realize we're all pretty similar.

Yes. Uh, you know, I think for me, my parents' unhappiness has been a big motivating factor in my own life to not end up in that place and that. Impetus, Right. That, that was my compass of like, well then that means I'm number one. I'm not gonna stay in a miserable marriage. Number two, I've gotta get help for the shit that that is mine.

And, and number three, I, I'm gonna have to start tearing apart some of this stuff that I, I've been taught and that we've grown up in that is keeping us broken and tied down. And, and that means walking away from like, Huh. Big existential life defining, you know, not qualities, but like beliefs and, and, and be trusting that I'll be able to withstand the rejection and the disappointment, or, and there was that, you know, from my mom and dad.

And then eventually they came around because they love us. They love my sister and I And was it easy at first? Oh my God, no. It was horrible. It was horrible. And I knew that they were disappointed, maybe even embarrassed of me. But in the end, they, they lovingly said, Yeah, oh, we were really wrong. Wow. But yeah, so then through all of that saying yes and exploration, and it was a, it feels like a real messy time.

It was a messy, exciting, maybe I started to say reckless, so it probably was in certain moments, reckless maybe that I, because I was so intent unlike, what is this? What is this? I was not fit for up to be a partner to another person at that time. Right. Or a long term partner by any means. So that's what I mean, reckless, Um, because I was too, I was, I was too ready to just move around.

And from thing to thing and thing, I didn't, I did not want any other relationship after. 10 years married and 12 years together. And it was so hard and so sad to disentangle myself from that, that I was like, Nope, , let's just play for a while. Yeah. Yeah. And you did, and then you met Kyle and then, Then I met my husband, my, now my number two husband, he always says two and not through.

And I'm like, Yes, I'm through . But I would not say, I would not say till death do us part in our vows because I no longer believe in that. Not that I don't believe in death, I do, but what I'm saying is I don't believe you have to promise someone your whole fucking life, cuz nobody knows that. Yeah. So, yes.

Okay. So you met, so you, so you met Kyle. Yeah. What, what did you think of Kyle when you first met him? I thought that he was a very. Labrador of a person, just so much. He was so much, and there were so many emojis and exclamation points, and he, he was really happy and I, I felt like Kyle was a lot. It was, he, he was so laser focused on me, which in some ways was amazing.

Yeah. I'd never had someone who was like, You, you're it , you know? I mean, I guess, but not, not in that way. Or maybe I, What I should say is I'd never had someone who was the type of person Kyle was, say something like that. The people who had said it before. Were people who were emotionally unavailable. So when they would say, You, you're it, they, it would be like half of a piece of toast.

And I'd be like, Thank you, . Kyle said, You're, it's like, Here is past of Whole Foods. He's like, You done it all. Um, I and I, it was so much, it was so much and a lot, and he was very different than any person I had ever, ever dated. And I was very skeptical. . So skeptical. There was not a dark or brooding. Shred in his entire existence.

And that was what I generally was attracted to, was like these, you know, injured, hurt, addict, sexy men. Even if I didn't know that about them, if I was drawn to them nine times outta 10, that, that, that was all in the mix somewhere. Um, Kyle was none of those things. And so the Compass, one of my friends told me, Girl, your picker is broken.

So my broken picker was like, Nah, , no thanks. Woo. Where were you in your journey of figuring yourself out at this point, would you say? Um, I was still, I was still dating around. Mm-hmm. . Um, I had had one like longer term relationship right after I had left my husband. Um, and I had ended that relationship. Um, Because that person had a significant drinking problem.

I had had no intention of settling down really with any person. But I do think, I do think I did eventually wanna find another partner, but I didn't wanna get married again at all. Why , Why do you, why did you hang out with Kyle? Kyle is like magic. There's no other person in my life that I have ever connected with in the way that I connect to Kyle.

He makes me laugh. And it is a, it is a, an, uh, it throws me off balance every time I get, It's a silly way to say it, but I get tickled, right? Like he's still to this day will. Catch, like say things and it catches me off guard. And I am delighted by him. And even though he was nerdy and, um, you know, like I mentioned before, like more, definitely more clean cut and just not, like I said, not anything like the guy that, that guys that I had normally gone for something about him when I was around him, I was relaxed.

Mm. And I That's huge. Yeah. I relaxed and I had so much fun and. A, a girlfriend of mine at the time, I remember saying to her like, I don't know. Right? Like, I don't know if he's gonna be alpha enough for me. Like, God, what a conti thing to say. But that is what I said by all means. I was not like fully realized as a person that Jesus at that point in time, and we probably aren't ever, but I didn't know if our chemistry was gonna be enough or if he was gonna be, you know, exciting enough for me or whatever.

I actually, this is something that I wanted to talk about because I think we get. So used to the like excitement, like the artists who are, you know, intense and brooding and dangerous and sexy and the excitement and danger of not knowing what's next. Do they love me? Are they playing games with me? Will I ever see them again?

You know? Yeah. And when and how. And then you see them again and it's like you feel like you are everything in the earth. Sure. It's a horrible cycle. Yeah. Yeah. It's a cycle. And then, but then it's like that that anxiousness, that a accompanies like the volatility of those types of relationships I think is what we often mistake for chemistry.

Like we think that's true. The excitement, We think it's excitement. We think it's attraction, but it's really anxiety. And so then when we meet someone's, and it's, yes, it's from a trauma childhood, a hundred percent. And then when we meet someone romantically who like doesn't. Make us feel those same ups and downs, then we are in this position where we're like, I don't know, like he's great, but I feel like something's missing.

Or like, there's no chemistry. And it's like, No, what we're missing is the instability that we are so accustomed to, but we, we, we interpret his chemistry. Yep, Yep. It's, I mean, I don't even think that I really, I really understood all of that, but you just spoke about until, oh, Jesus, I don't know, maybe four or five years, maybe even.

I'm not even sure I understood it when I married Kyle. I don't, I'm not sure I could have articulated it that well. Um, I don't think I understood this until, honestly, just a few months ago, , you know, Kyle was stable and safe and probably the biggest difference between him and and everyone else in my life up to that point is that Kyle put all his cards on the table right at the get go and.

I think that number one, I didn't know what to do with all that. And number two, the allure of like, who is this person? Or is this, you know, like, like what we talked about with a person who is not fully invested. That was what my normal was. And that there's part of a chase, right? And, uh, you, you learn to evaluate your own self worth with whether or not you succeed in getting this person's attention.

Slash commitment a thousand percent, right? Yeah. And so where's the thrill that you're used to with a person who's like, Hey, I'm here all, every bit of me. Let's do this all the time. And you're like,

Um, but I had a very, that very good friend that I was talking about, she said, you know, well, , if there's anything at all that you like about him, go on another date. Just go on a date, another date until you are sure that no. Okay. I know, and I could not deny that every time we did anything, I never felt better.

I never once had a bad time even, even on like, you know, like awkward dates or whatever, which are inevitable. He still , he still always managed to just, I don't know, be he's, Kyle is exactly who he is. He, there's no pretense with him and he, he is willing to be in his own life a hundred percent and be present and answer questions and.

I had never had that before with a person, so it felt overwhelming. Mm-hmm. . But it was also this new land. It it was safe. It was a place to be stable. Yeah. And I could relax. I, I don't know that I ever had relaxed in a relationship before, ever. The, And it built off of that. Right. And I, I think that number one, he was tremendously patient.

And, uh, number two, he gave me space when I asked for space. And I was not ready when I met him to be his girlfriend at all. And I said that, and. He wanted to , he was, I think what he said was, I, this is like two or three months after we'd gone out on our first date or something, and he was like, I wanna date you.

I wanna date this shit outta you, . And I said, Do you so cute? Do you mean like exclusively? And he was like, Yes, Rebecca, yes. And I was like, No, I can't, I can't do that. I'm not, I'm not ready for that. Um, if it makes you feel any better, you're in first place. And, but I can't, He says, he said later, he was like, That's all I needed to hear.

I knew, like, he was like, I could see, he was like, The guys you dated that were terrible people, , he like, knew eventually come to senses. Wow. But I did, I did have to just take my time. And I, I think about, I moved to LA during that time. I lived by myself during that time and we did, We dated other people.

Right? I did. Yeah. And not very many, like one or two guys and I not for very long. And I was clear with Kyle. I told him I'm, I'm gonna date people when I go out there. I, you know, if I, if I decide to sleep with anybody else but you, I'll let you know because I feel like that is, you know, respectful practice.

But I really think that I was healing as a person and that the time I was taking with myself and making my own choices and living my own life allowed me to slowly see Kyle for the gift that he really was. Um, and as I was in LA in a new place, still being drawn towards the same old type of person at the same time, I was disappointed in them, which had never happened before.

Ah, that's interesting. I was like, one guy in particular, I remember. I, I, we'd been making out or something and, and I was like, Are you, I've got a question for you. You know how you are when you're dumb and dating somebody at the beginning. And I was like, Are you ever silly? Do you ever, you know, are you, would you ever call yourself a silly person?

And he was like, No, no, never. Oh, bored. And I, yeah, I felt my stomach kind of sink. And what I realized was, Oh, I'm valuing different things now. Like the, the love and delight and, and just spontaneity and silliness that comes with Kyle that I really like. I like it in my life and I like it as a part of me.

I don't wanna date somebody who doesn't have that, and that would never have been a quality that was important to me a couple years prior. But I, I don't think I, I would've been able to appreciate it any earlier in life than I did. You know, That's why I say, I, I said yes to Kyle when he when he said, I'll go to the movies with you.

Uh, because I had made a commitment to saying yes, not because I looked at him and was like, Oh yeah, hey. Right. That was not it. I remember thinking like, Okay, and I thought he might be gay, and I was like, Maybe you'll be my new gay friend that I go to movies with. Like, I had no idea what I was getting into at all with this person, and it changed my entire life and is the very, the very best thing that has ever happened to me.

So, you know, it's him and him knowing himself and giving me space to know myself. When was the point or what was the point where you understood that you were ready to commit fully to Kyle? It's, it's, it was around that same time I was talking about that guy and I, I called my sister because Kyle, we'd been dating now for a year and a half and I still wouldn't.

Commit to being, I hated this, but I was like, I'm, I'm not gonna be your girlfriend. I was married for a decade, for Christ's sake. I don't wanna be somebody's girlfriend. Right? Like, that just sounds so dumb. But I kept calling him the guy I'm seeing . And he was like, Yeah, that's really not, Yeah, that's so clearly.

I had some hangups. Um, but I called my sister and I was like, I don't know Laura. Like, I like this guy. And he's, you know, the chemistry is just really exciting, but I kind of also feel like we might just burn each other out and, you know, but then I asked him, Is he silly? And he was like, No. And like, being silly was some kind of like disease or something.

And I, and then Kyle and she, and she said to me, and Becky is what I was called growing up, by the way. So she was like, Becky, look, , there will always be more guys. Okay, Always. But Kyle is not gonna wait on you forever. So you need to just go ahead and decide. , either you're gonna be in a relationship with him and figure out if it works or just stop.

And in that moment that sounded very clear to me and made sense. And I was like, Yeah, actually I need to stop waiting to, because I'm scared to see if it will be enough and I need to figure out if it will be or not. And um, so I think it was maybe two days later that he had already, we'd already had a trip planned for him to fly to LA and I told him, Yeah, okay, I want to do this and I wanna see what that means for me.

And then we've been together ever since. So, , you took a lot of risks with Kyle, meaning I did like you moved to California and dating other people, and all of the things you just described, you mentioned to me. Phone call that you felt like you had or you had to be okay with losing Kyle. Yes. In order to arrive at a place of trust in yourself.

That is hundred percent true. It seems like you always had a lot of trust in yourself, like even from early on, I mean, breaking off your engagement and mm-hmm. leaving your family and your religion and Yeah. Leaving a marriage. Like how do you consistently show up for yourself and have your own back in these moments of hard decisions and moments when maybe other people you're close with think you're making mistake?

Um, thank you for saying that. I am not a person who enjoys dissonance or conflict. It's necessary. I've spent a lot of time in therapy learning that you can hold two opposing things at the same time, and they can both very much be true. Um, it is an uncomfortable place for me when something feels wrong inside of me or unjust.

It is almost like I cannot even swallow. I can't, My chest gets too tight. I, I don't feel like I can move forward or take another step until I am righted within myself. In the instance when I was young, really young and engaged, I didn't have any good reason to. To break off that engagement except that I didn't want to get married.

Well, that right there is a good enough reason, right? But not when you've already bought a wedding dress and you have bridesmaids dresses and you've got the photographer and you've been dating for two years, and you're gonna be missionaries together for the glory of the Lord and da da da. There was a whole lot invested in this relationship and how it appeared, but something didn't feel good and enough to where I was like having panic attacks and I, I was really sick to my stomach a lot of the time, and I, I just couldn't do it.

And

I think for me, at least in the two relationships before Kyle, I reached such a pro, sadly, a profoundly dark place in my life that I didn't want. I just, that's wasn't what I wanted my fucking life to be like. I. I did not want to stay in West Virginia. I love West Virginia. I love my, my parents and my friends in my home.

And, but I, I have always wanted to experience everything I get my hands on. And, um, I think the deepest part of me knew that that wasn't gonna happen in that relationship. And, and, and I got, I, I, like, I could go into it further, but I got really sick. I weighed 103 pounds. I couldn't eat. I was having panic attacks.

It's the first time I started seeing a therapist. And it was because I was trying to force myself into this idea of what was right and good and holy and, you know, and it wasn't for me. And then when it came to leaving my marriage, I was miserable. I was, I was just so fucked up and broken and sad from this square peg, round hole arrangement.

And it took so much undoing because I grew up in a place of marriages forever. You don't get divorced. Not unless he's hitting you, right. And even then you might not. And he was a very, he was a good man, quote unquote, right? So I think it'd be nice to say that I knew some secret way to be in tune with myself, but actually I just was so god damn miserable both times that I couldn't keep doing it.

And. You know, I suppose there are, there are a couple things, right? So as I'm talking this out, we talked about verbal processing and what do you learn? Mm-hmm. . Um, first one, first engagement. No, I knew I didn't wanna stay at home. That was not my plan. So that was a deep core value in me. Whether I had defined it that way or not.

Second marriage was kids. Um, that's probably what did it. Uh, we both wanted kids very much, but we were a mess. My first husband and an I and I wa I was not going to do to my children. What was done to me firmly, firmly made that promise. And so for three years, every New Year's Eve, we made a promise. This is the year we'll get it together.

This is the year we'll get our shit together and we'll try for a family. And, and we never could. , and I very, very clearly remember that final New Year's Eve just being out of my body, just thinking like this is done. How much more time am I gonna waste? How much more time am I gonna waste? Because I wanted kids and I wanted them, but I wanted to give them what I didn't have.

So I trusted those deep, deep things in myself that were calling out to me. And I don't know if that's helpful to anybody else who's trying to figure it out or not, but that's how it helped. I mean, that's how it felt to me. Yeah. And that's what, That's why Kyle, I think I, I've said before, the way he is, the humor that.

It's like he has some sort of special key to a part of me that unlocked this. Like, Oh, right. Things are not so fucking hard. They're not actually, they can be really fun and really easy. And that's not to say that there weren't times of tension, like you mentioned. Like I did have to be willing to let Kyle go.

I didn't know from the get go, I knew more, Oh, I still need space here. No, I'm not ready to fucking put a ring on my finger. No. Like things like that that I had to be willing to say. And I guess you, you asked how did I know I'd come that far? At that point, I was in my late thirties and I was like, Nah, this has been working for me.

Right. This listening and trusting, so I'm just gonna keep doing it. Yeah. Yeah. That's what you wanted ultimately, it sounds like. Yeah. I, I was so tired of being afraid. Yeah. Afraid that I was making the wrong choice. Afraid that I was making God mad, afraid that I was gonna ruin my life, afraid that, whatever, you know, And I just refused to be afraid anymore.

And, and that meant, that actually just meant doing what I wanted to do and facing the consequences, but knowing that I'd be okay. Yeah. Okay. So you guys got married? ? We did

He wore me down. Um, you know, I, we dated for three years before we got married. Much more than five months. He is six and a half years younger than me and had never been married. Yeah. He is younger than me. I didn't, We dated for three years and he moved to LA and, you know, we had this glorious. Grand time and wonderful adventure there.

And, um, I wasn't sure that I wanted to get married again because it ended, it had, it was now tied to so much sadness. The idea of it, like my parents' marriage was always fucked, but then my own marriage that I really, really wanted to work did not. And so I, I just really wanted nothing to do with it. And then he like eased me into the conversation and he goes, Well, what if we just had a small, like, private ceremony, not even legal, just in the backyard with close friends.

And then he was like, Well, I kind of feel like if we're gonna have kids, we should get married. And then also, my husband's mother had cancer and, and Kyle had never been married. And I just sort, it all just sort of went away and I was like, Fuck it. He can, you know, he wants this, right? Like it's a dream of his, and I'm sure, and I know his mother wanted him to have that experience.

And so I was like, whatever , I'll just, I'll just it up. But they, I also, like, I didn't change my name and um, I said, No, I'm not saying till death do you part, like that's, I don't you Kyle, you know that? I don't believe that anything. We just don't know what the future holds. Yeah. Um, and he was like, Great, great, great.

I love all of it. He goes, Just let me project the bat signal when we exit after we're married. Can I do that? What? I was like, I know, I forgot that I didn't tell you this. My husband loves Batman. Oh my God, this is amazing. Go on. Is it, is it, Well, Molly, is it, I dunno. Was with a deep undying devotion and the church took down.

Is it pyramids or estimates, the like stuff that hangs at the front big wall of the church and one of our friends got a Batman gobo and a big light from one of the studios and we projected the bat signal and played the Danny Elfman Batman thing when we exited the church. Yeah. So he owes me forever. So it might not be until death do you part, but he owes you till death to part was right.

Like, and everybody knows this about Kyle, like here's how deep his love goes for Batman. Mm-hmm not only does he have a Batman tattoo, he's got tons of Batman everything. My husband dressed up as Batman and went to Lurie Children's Hospital of his own accord. He knew someone there and would go and talk to the kid, like just to think.

He didn't tell people he was doing it. It was just a thing he. That's the man I'm married. I , I, yeah. Adore him. He's amazing. I've only met him once very, very briefly. hardly talked to him at all, but he was a wonderful human being. What a guy. What a guy. Yeah. Yeah. So I, you know, like in the end I'm always like, Okay, fine.

Whatever. . Yeah, yeah. Right, Because he's, because he's great. So, and I wanna be real clear, we fight, Okay. Everybody, we fight. I have said horrible things to him. He has said horrible things to me. Every, We have two children now. We're so fucking tired. We barely have sex like that. You know, I, I wanna be really honest.

Everything is not like glorious and perfect. Yeah. But I love him. I love him, and he is my partner and. We are, we are honest with each other and we are kind to each other more than we are not. And that is, I I, I didn't know that partnership could be like this. We work really hard on ourselves to bring our best selves to this partnership and now to our kids, like we're in it to win it with these babies.

They are, they are our everything. So that means you don't fuck around. Right. It's their life. Yeah. It's their life and you are their safe space. So tell me what part of you, if any, feels settled. Mm-hmm. . And what part of you, if any, feels wanting for more still

settled. I, I mean, I got my family, right? I got a partner that I love and I. We did ended up having to do ivf. It was a whole thing, but we got two kids. Um, that is settled sometimes. I can't believe that I ended up with this fairy tale of, of things being as good as they are unsettled. It's a given and take.

Right? I miss traveling. I miss the freedom of. Kids mostly have hampered that, but like, let's go get a cocktail and get wasted . Right? That doesn't happen anymore. You've wrecked, you wrecked for two days now and you can't parent like that. Spirit of full disclosure, Kyle and I talked like, would we ever be in an open relationship?

Is that something that we would ever consider? And I was like, Yeah, I'd consider it. And he was like, No, I would not consider it. . Which probably comes as a surprise to absolutely know one. Do you, do you dress up as Catwoman for him? ? Oh yeah. Molly, have I have? Uh, yeah, it's photo evidence nonsense. Oh my God.

Thank you for answering that very hard question. Um, I'm, well I guess I'll just ask you this because we talked about it earlier. What, through this conversation, what have you learned about yourself? Um, I think. The thing that sticks out and you ask me like, how have you always trusted yourself?

I, I have a lot of thought swirling around that. Um,

because I feel for so long that I didn't trust myself. In fact, I was taught not to trust myself. What I was taught is that we are inherently evil and that our desires are always gonna be sinful. And that what you have to do is learn what God wants for your life and learn what, what God's path is. And that is so profoundly damaging to a human being to say, No, don't trust yourself cuz what you want is probably wrong.

And I think that's why I stayed in certain situations for so long. , even though I knew I didn't like it, I didn't know how to justify my own feelings. So maybe just remembering that I am capable of more than I really, I don't ever view myself the way that you described just now. Um, I always feel a lot more scared and fragile and bruised than I guess it appears.

Right. And trying to bring those two things together, right. What I'm capable of and what I've been through. And then also recognizing that sometimes I still

a am am as lost as the next person, you know, And that you'll get through that. Yeah. Cuz you have before. Sure. Sure. Yes. . Yes. And when it feels like shit, just know that this is just the time for feeling like shit. You know? I think I mentioned this to you in one of our phone calls, but it stuck with me and it stuck with me when I was going through my divorce.

But, um, when a caterpillar goes into its cocoon, it actually liquefies its whole body does before it reemerges as a butterfly, it literally turns to goo its whole self before the metamorphosis. Metamorphosis. And I forget which author, you know, wrote about that, but, but that there are times in our lives when we are goo and you are gonna feel like goo, like shit, like just a, a mess, a glob of a human.

And that's, I think I'm in that phase being a parent of two young children. You know, mid post pan Pandemic pandemic. Where are we at now? Who the fuck knows? Um, 44 years old in my career where the value is on 24 year olds, right? Like there's a lot of my aging parents there. There's a lot of new territory for me right now.

Um, and I am, like I said, I am tired. Um, and just remembering that feeling like this is, is literally an essential, if not the most essential part of the transformation. So, Well said. Someone else said it, but I'll repeat it. , No. Whatever.

I think about it a lot though. I'm like, Oh, I'm due right now. I'm, I'm, I'm a mess right now. And that is just, I always ask people to introduce themselves in the, in the beginning, however you introduce yourselves. And I'm curious, without using titles such as actor, wife, or mother or whatever, how would you define your identity?

I am Rebecca Ward, A lover of people and words, and tastes and sounds and smells. I cannot wait for every new adventure. I, I always used to say that you can't have, that You can have everything. Yes, you can. You may not be able to have it all at the same time, but you can have everything. I don't like it when people tell me no.

So . Okay, good. I'm glad that you said that. Sure you can. Thank you. Thank you. I needed to hear that good. Yeah. I mean, you know, it, it, there's no limitations. What is it that I think Deepak Chopra always talks about the field of limitless possibilities. We live in a field of limitless possibilities. Yes. I, I like just thinking about that and then taking a deep breath.

There's something inherently hopeful that goes along with that statement, you know? Yes. I love that. I feel like that's the, the whole point and theme of this entire podcast. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, things will come out of the woodwork that you never expected. My nickname for Kyle is Left Field because that's exactly where he came from.

Thank you to David Ben Perra for Sound Engineering. Dan Daven for music, David Harper for artwork. I'm Molly Cider. I am This age is produced by Jellyfish Industries. And hey, if you're loving these episodes, don't forget to rate review, and most importantly, share with everyone you know. We need help growing this show so we can keep sharing stories.

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A full transcription is available at www.iamthisage.com